Watercooler Talk

[jcapriotti]

Hey, as long as it involves CAD and it's not American-Centered!

We all know CAD stands for Computerized American Design?

[SPerman]

In my brief sample size, american cad is way better than french cad.

[David Matula]

anyone else have the coffee taken from the break room?
It has been 2 weeks already and no end in sight. I miss my morning java.

[mattpeneguy]

Hey, as long as it involves CAD and it's not American-Centered!

All of my derision is directed at a French CAD company...So, I think I'm fine, right?

[Ömür Tokman]

... there is hope for you smokers..
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... acco-plant

Frankly, I don't want to be vaccinated, none of the processes in covid are convincing to me. I can't understand what they want to do to us.

[zxys001]

Frankly, I don't want to be vaccinated, none of the processes in covid are convincing to me. I can't understand what they want to do to us.

wow,.. amazing.
No vaccine is 100% protective, period.
Currently...~ 0.001% fully vaccinated have died from COVID-19,..and ~ 0.005% fully vaccinated were hospitalized from COVID-19
Otherwise, you're 30-50X more likely to get Covid if you're not vaccinated.. or your risk are ~0.03 (death) and ~0.25%(hospital)
(simple metrics),.. the unvaccinated and non-maskers spread Covid at much higher rates = this S%$# show continues mainly because of (add blame here)?

[mike miller]

I thought this wasn't going to come up again. Did I miss something?

[SPerman]

ok, please no negative racist connotations. Religion and politics make really bad discussion topics. There are bunches of facebook and twitter groups where you can fight about that. This is a professional forum where people with very different ideas about everything can come together on a common topic. Please don't make me moderate stuff, or add more stupid rules.

No matter what your point of view is you're not going to "fix" anyone here (or likely anywhere else either). Just allow people to believe what they believe in peace, regardless of how wrong you think they are.

...unless the topic is multibody sheet metal, in which case everyone else is just wrong. See? You don't feel any smarter, do you?

[Ömür Tokman]

wow,.. amazing.
No vaccine is 100% protective, period.
Currently...~ 0.001% fully vaccinated have died from COVID-19,..and ~ 0.005% fully vaccinated were hospitalized from COVID-19
Otherwise, you're 30-50X more likely to get Covid if you're not vaccinated.. or your risk are ~0.03 (death) and ~0.25%(hospital)
(simple metrics),.. the unvaccinated and non-maskers spread Covid at much higher rates = this S%$# show continues mainly because of (add blame here)?

Actual information on vaccinated persons is confidential. It was announced by the Ministry of Health 3 days ago in a hospital in Turkey. Only one of the 66 patients hospitalized in the intensive care unit is vaccinated, the others are unvaccinated. A doctor working at that hospital stated that this information was incorrect and that only 23 of the 66 patients were unvaccinated, while the others were given 2 or 3 doses of vaccine. (43)
4 of 5 intubated patients are vaccinated and 1 is unvaccinated. Of the 18 patients hospitalized in the intensive care unit, only 4 were unvaccinated and 14 were vaccinated. We don't know how many more hospitals there are that are hidden from us for this incident only one hospital.
The side effects of the vaccines are unknown, the health ministry does not disclose how many people have died because of the vaccine.
The vaccine company does not take responsibility.
The state does not take responsibility.
The hospital where the vaccine is made does not take responsibility. Why should I take responsibility?

The vaccine manufacturer makes no guarantees for the vaccine.
A vaccinated person can be a covid carrier, die from covid, be infected with covid, die from side effects, and have to live with side effects for life.
Why should I trust the vaccine when the manufacturer does not give any guarantees?

I think...

[SPerman]

There are bunches of facebook and twitter groups where you can fight about that. This is a professional forum where people with very different ideas about everything can come together on a common topic. Please don't make me moderate stuff, or add more stupid rules.

[mike miller]

[AlexLachance]

Guys, can we stop with the arguing over opinions?

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and everyone thinks theirs doesn't stink compared to others

[mattpeneguy]

image.png (195.57 KiB) Viewed 11499 times

Not true! I've seen you over on the Platform doing just that...

[MJuric]

Guys, can we stop with the arguing over opinions?

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and everyone thinks theirs doesn't stink compared to others

However there is a huge difference between opinion and fact and that is the major issue we have on so many levels today. Opinion does not equal fact. opinion does not even equal partially proven fact. Opinion is exactly that, opinion. One persons perspective that could be backed up by nothing more than that persons belief system and no supporting evidence. Fact is something that is arrived at via a process that can be tested, repeated and is widely recognized.

Arguing over opinion is a waste of time. Not facing people that want to equate their opinion with a fact is simply dangerous.

Just to be clear here I'm talking about CAD. "Solid Edge is better than Solidworks" is opinion. "Solidworks crashed 37 times on me last week and Solid Edge never crashed on me", is fact. One can be proven, documented and backed up with data. The other lacks any supportive evidence as stated and uses descriptions that are un defined making it opinion.

Making these two statements "Equal" is dangerous on many levels.

[DennisD]

However there is a huge difference between opinion and fact and that is the major issue we have on so many levels today. Opinion does not equal fact. opinion does not even equal partially proven fact. Opinion is exactly that, opinion. One persons perspective that could be backed up by nothing more than that persons belief system and no supporting evidence. Fact is something that is arrived at via a process that can be tested, repeated and is widely recognized.

Arguing over opinion is a waste of time. Not facing people that want to equate their opinion with a fact is simply dangerous.

Just to be clear here I'm talking about CAD. "Solid Edge is better than Solidworks" is opinion. "Solidworks crashed 37 times on me last week and Solid Edge never crashed on me", is fact. One can be proven, documented and backed up with data. The other lacks any supportive evidence as stated and uses descriptions that are un defined making it opinion.

Making these two statements "Equal" is dangerous on many levels.

FWIW, Solid Edge has NEVER crashed on me. That is a fact!





. . . But I don't have Solid Edge, just SWX.

[MJuric]

The vaccine manufacturer makes no guarantees for the vaccine.
A vaccinated person can be a covid carrier, die from covid, be infected with covid, die from side effects, and have to live with side effects for life.
Why should I trust the vaccine when the manufacturer does not give any guarantees?

I think...

At the risk of getting booted out of here I can only respond to this with educate yourself. Look at the clinical trials, read clinical reports, find governmental reviews etc etc etc. Do not listen to your local news, neighbors, twitter or Facebook as if this is the only information that exists and or their editorials of other existing information.

You can find all sorts of different clinical trials here https://clinicaltrials.gov/based on disease, country etc etc. Many of these studies have a plethora of links with a plethora of information.

Just keep digging, keep asking questions, searching and learning.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson made a great statement on how to deal with this sort of stuff. He essentially said gather as much information from as many and as diverse number of sources as you can find. Eventually once you gather enough information in nearly every case you will find a trend line where the vast majority of information follows. If you find that your position is way off that trend line, more than likely your position needs to be adjusted.

[MJuric]

FWIW, Solid Edge has NEVER crashed on me. That is a fact!





. . . But I don't have Solid Edge, just SWX.

And for the record SW did crash on me like 2-3 times yesterday (Pseudo opinion because I haven't looked but if I wanted to I could pull up the Rx and look if I really cared to) ....but I don't have SE either

[Ömür Tokman]

At the risk of getting booted out of here I can only respond to this with educate yourself. Look at the clinical trials, read clinical reports, find governmental reviews etc etc etc. Do not listen to your local news, neighbors, twitter or Facebook as if this is the only information that exists and or their editorials of other existing information.

You can find all sorts of different clinical trials here https://clinicaltrials.gov/based on disease, country etc etc. Many of these studies have a plethora of links with a plethora of information.

Just keep digging, keep asking questions, searching and learning.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson made a great statement on how to deal with this sort of stuff. He essentially said gather as much information from as many and as diverse number of sources as you can find. Eventually once you gather enough information in nearly every case you will find a trend line where the vast majority of information follows. If you find that your position is way off that trend line, more than likely your position needs to be adjusted.

I can't reach, can you reach?
I don't know, maybe this problem is related to me.

Edit:
I was able to access it through this application.

Although the investigations on a few issues that I wondered and examined were completed, the results are not published.
I wonder why?
maybe the prevention or dismissal of those who oppose those who manage this process?

Anyway, no need to go too far, as you said these are just my opinion and if I win this year's GREEN CARD lottery I will probably be vaccinated.

[mattpeneguy]

However there is a huge difference between opinion and fact and that is the major issue we have on so many levels today. Opinion does not equal fact. opinion does not even equal partially proven fact. Opinion is exactly that, opinion. One persons perspective that could be backed up by nothing more than that persons belief system and no supporting evidence. Fact is something that is arrived at via a process that can be tested, repeated and is widely recognized.

Arguing over opinion is a waste of time. Not facing people that want to equate their opinion with a fact is simply dangerous.

Just to be clear here I'm talking about CAD. "Solid Edge is better than Solidworks" is opinion. "Solidworks crashed 37 times on me last week and Solid Edge never crashed on me", is fact. One can be proven, documented and backed up with data. The other lacks any supportive evidence as stated and uses descriptions that are un defined making it opinion.

Making these two statements "Equal" is dangerous on many levels.

TL:DR...If you disagree with me, you're wrong...That's a fact...

[zxys001]

Guys, can we stop with the arguing over opinions?

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and everyone thinks theirs doesn't stink compared to others

TRUTH!,.. bcuz, I just saw this...

[Ömür Tokman]

TRUTH!,.. bcuz, I just saw this...

that was nice

[zxys001]

TL:DR...If you disagree with me, you're wrong...That's a fact...

..it's the right thing to do, Matt.

[DennisD]

Guys, can we stop with the arguing over opinions?

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and everyone thinks theirs doesn't stink compared to others

With regard to Covid and assholes. . .

I go to get my hair cut and they spray down the seat of the chair before I sit in it as part of their Covid protocol. I looked at them and said "Covid is an airborne virus. You must think we all talk out of our @$$." "Have a seat, sir" was the response.

[mattpeneguy]

Hey @matt you need to update your autocorrect to include *butt-sphincter*...and no I don't mean for my name to autocorrect to *butt-sphincter*...
how's it catch @$$ but not *butt-sphincter*?

[zxys001]

Hey @matt you need to update your autocorrect to include *butt-sphincter*...and no I don't mean for my name to autocorrect to *butt-sphincter*...
how's it catch @$$ but not *butt-sphincter*?

(raising hand).. or, maybe be more specific... "external anal sphincter" would be better?

[matt]

Hey @matt you need to update your autocorrect to include *butt-sphincter*...and no I don't mean for my name to autocorrect to *butt-sphincter*...
how's it catch @$$ but not *butt-sphincter*?

ok, done. I knew I could count on you guys to come up with more bad words for me to correct. There's such endless variety here, it boggles the imagination. I'm over my limit for admin duties for this week....

[zwei]

Image/Poster for SWX 2022 Whats New

Is this a hint that SWX is sinking down into the SWYMP?

[zxys001]

Image/Poster for SWX 2022 Whats New

Is this a hint that SWX is sinking down into the SWYMP?
image.png

20 Thousand Leagues!

[zxys001]

one word..."Windex"

[AlexLachance]

Image/Poster for SWX 2022 Whats New

Is this a hint that SWX is sinking down into the SWYMP?
image.png

I think I just puked a little in my mouth.

[Frederick_Law]

The vaccine manufacturer makes no guarantees for the vaccine.
A vaccinated person can be a *bat-fever* carrier, die from *bat-fever*, be infected with *bat-fever*, die from side effects, and have to live with side effects for life.
Why should I trust the vaccine when the manufacturer does not give any guarantees?

I think...

Not all "vaccine" work the same.
Some vaccine provide life time immunity. Some need periodic reinject. Some only reduce symptom and sickness.
Flu "vaccine" is the last type which we get in Canada every year.
COVID is similar.
From the beginning, it never was "immune". Its reduce symptom, sickness so people don't need to go to hospital.
The problem is not how many people get infected.
Problem is how many need hospital care.

Vaccinated: get mild symptoms and recover at home after a few day. Or no symptoms.
Non-vaccinated: get very sick and need to stay in hospital. Some could die.

We all have a choice.
How we live.
And how we die.

Usually I don't take yearly flu vaccine because usually I don't get the flu. I did took it a few times.

Now I got 2 dose and "fully vaccinated".

[MJuric]

Not all "vaccine" work the same.
Some vaccine provide life time immunity. Some need periodic reinject. Some only reduce symptom and sickness.
Flu "vaccine" is the last type which we get in Canada every year.
*bat-fever* is similar.
From the beginning, it never was "immune". Its reduce symptom, sickness so people don't need to go to hospital.
The problem is not how many people get infected.
Problem is how many need hospital care.

Vaccinated: get mild symptoms and recover at home after a few day. Or no symptoms.
Non-vaccinated: get very sick and need to stay in hospital. Some could die.

We all have a choice.
How we live.
And how we die.

Usually I don't take yearly flu vaccine because usually I don't get the flu. I did took it a few times.

Now I got 2 dose and "fully vaccinated".

Are there any vaccines that provide life time immunity? Even polio and other "Eradicated" diseases suggest that you go thru the polio regiment again as an adult if you are in any situation where you will be exposed to polio.

What I find interesting about this is that the polio vaccine was/Is very much like the Covid vaccine. Two doses are only ~90% effective. Three doses are ~99%+ effective. However it does wear off over time and become less effective.

Polio symptoms range from Asymptomatic to....death.

Current standard Polio regiment is three to five doses.

What would be an interesting study, book, whatever that showed the path we took to get from a population that was ready and willing to trust science and take recommended shots to one that half of the population doesn't trust at all. Similar education, similar methods etc etc so the process itself hasn't really changed.

[zxys001]

End of the week rant.... man,.. since the middle ages (maybe we are still there?... rats for sale?),... educate yourselves about disease and human history ).... People,.. families/cultures/communities (ALL) have had mandates on enforcing anyone, for the protection of the public (everyone), into quarantine and yet the behavior of the antivax/masker's making this political (politicians) is pathetic... is as "if" it effects their liberties and they somehow have a right/freedom to infect others?.... The utter ignorance is amazing everyday since this started...and it continues to be a political ball... and now, they are using children in the game they play (their own children know better)?.... We have a willful ignorance problem within of our societies wanting to make this political? IT IS NOT and HAS NEVER BEEN POLITICAL, period.
https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/historyquarantine.html
https://www.hhs.gov/answers/public-heal ... index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/vaccines-age.html

[matt]

What would be an interesting study, book, whatever that showed the path we took to get from a population that was ready and willing to trust science and take recommended shots to one that half of the population doesn't trust at all. Similar education, similar methods etc etc so the process itself hasn't really changed.

I got my shots as soon as I could and I'm planning on getting my booster at the earliest recommended point. I recognize there is some risk involved in taking the shot, and a little bowing to the powers that be, but these are the choices I made.

BUT,

I do kinda get it where some of the people who don't want shots are coming from. I think they come to the wrong conclusions, but I think I can understand why they made that choice. I believe that it's not anti-science so much as anti-government. Science is so often a puppet. You don't have to look far to see social issues manipulated by distorted science. Government lies all the time about everything. Not just one side, but both. Scientists sometimes have an agenda, and sometimes their head is turned by power or money. So it isn't as simple as "trust the science".

I have a friend who has not taken the shot due to religious issues such as the use of fetal tissue for research. I don't agree with that choice, but I understand it and respect an individual's right to make their own decisions. Consequently, there are some events this person is involved with that have been canceled. Everybody has choices to make. I think we have to respect other's rights, even if we don't agree.

My hope is that that if someone chooses to not get the shot (I wish they would, but that's their choice), they should also be extra careful and quarantine as much as possible. Prolonging this virus is bad for everybody. It's irresponsible to not protect yourself and then put others at risk. I don't think the shot should be mandatory, that should be a choice. But I do think that if you choose to not take the shot, quarantine should be mandatory. At least until this thing is under control. Because you have the right to make your own decisions, but you don't have the right to endanger other people.

I have two family members who got the shot and still got sick, and one of them spent some time in the hospital. I think the "breakthrough" thing is a lot more common than anyone is saying.

[mike miller]

If the vaccine works, why worry about unvaccinated people if you're protected?

If it doesn't work, why advocate it?

Just my $0.02.

[matt]

If the vaccine works, why worry about unvaccinated people if you're protected?

If it doesn't work, why advocate it?

Just my $0.02.

It's my opinion that it "kinda works". We all know stuff like that, right? We still use stuff that just kinda works. So if I get a headache vs spend a month with a plastic tube crammed down my throat, that's worth something, eh?

[zxys001]

Kind of works (reminds me of some cad program name?) .... this whole vaccine debate of what works, why, how or what should we do (minions with their heads cut off).. reminds me of a video about change and the reasons you make sound rational decisions to move forward as a group and grow for your future,... "The inside story behind Mercedes big CAD swap from Catia to NX"



(my way of staying on topic.... geezus h xmas)

[MJuric]

It's my opinion that it "kinda works". We all know stuff like that, right? We still use stuff that just kinda works. So if I get a headache vs spend a month with a plastic tube crammed down my throat, that's worth something, eh?

Unless you believe that someone is controlling all the information everywhere the majority of numbers I see are that we are somewhere between the 1:7 and 1:10 ratio on hospitalizations vaccinations vs non vaccinated. At the moment since ~50% of the population is vaccinated that's probably a pretty good indicator of the effectiveness of the vaccine against hospitalization.

IOW you are 7-10 times more likely to end up in the hospital without the vaccine than with. I suspect the real world numbers are even better as the group that ends up in the hospital more often, elderly, also has a higher vaccination rate than the general public. That demographic is closer to 70% vaccination rate.

[MJuric]

I got my shots as soon as I could and I'm planning on getting my booster at the earliest recommended point. I recognize there is some risk involved in taking the shot, and a little bowing to the powers that be, but these are the choices I made.

BUT,

I do kinda get it where some of the people who don't want shots are coming from. I think they come to the wrong conclusions, but I think I can understand why they made that choice. I believe that it's not anti-science so much as anti-government. Science is so often a puppet. You don't have to look far to see social issues manipulated by distorted science. Government lies all the time about everything. Not just one side, but both. Scientists sometimes have an agenda, and sometimes their head is turned by power or money. So it isn't as simple as "trust the science".

I have a friend who has not taken the shot due to religious issues such as the use of fetal tissue for research. I don't agree with that choice, but I understand it and respect an individual's right to make their own decisions. Consequently, there are some events this person is involved with that have been canceled. Everybody has choices to make. I think we have to respect other's rights, even if we don't agree.

My hope is that that if someone chooses to not get the shot (I wish they would, but that's their choice), they should also be extra careful and quarantine as much as possible. Prolonging this virus is bad for everybody. It's irresponsible to not protect yourself and then put others at risk. I don't think the shot should be mandatory, that should be a choice. But I do think that if you choose to not take the shot, quarantine should be mandatory. At least until this thing is under control. Because you have the right to make your own decisions, but you don't have the right to endanger other people.

I have two family members who got the shot and still got sick, and one of them spent some time in the hospital. I think the "breakthrough" thing is a lot more common than anyone is saying.

My point here was a bit different than "Get shot now" vs "Don't get shot now"

Back in the 40's thru the 60's the population had a FAR greater reason to distrust the government than they do now. The government had instituted all sorts of restrictions and removed a plethora of Civil rights during WWII. An entire ethnic population was interned in the dessert. People where actually being used as medical Guinee pigs and "Protection of labor" was much lower then it is now. And yet, despite this, people lined up in droves to get every vaccination they could and very few didn't get them because of "I don't trust the government or the process". By 1970 I think something like 85-90% of the population was vaccinated for polio.

At some point from then till now a massive portion of the population switched from trusting a much less trustworthy government to not trusting amore trust worthy government.

As to your point about "Manipulated data". I think you will always have some level of this. People are looking for grants, support etc and everyone is susceptible to do things they normally wouldn't or shouldn't due to keep their jobs. To me this is the smaller portion of the problem. The bigger issue in my mind is the misrepresentation of good science. I think the over whelming majority of scientist out there are doing good science. What then happens is someone with a cause takes 10 years of work and pulls three lines out of it ignoring the rest and proclaims "See here is support for what I want".

I don't blame the scientists....I blame pretty much everyone else

[Frederick_Law]

I should start a "anti-protest" group.
Just show up in any protest to protest whatever they're protesting.
For the seek of endless protesting.

Let's start with a GoFundMe .....

[Frederick_Law]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton ... -1.6171187

[MJuric]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton ... -1.6171187

GOVERMENT CONTROLS THE MEDIA!

That being said another person I know that leans the "It's a hoax" direction is in the hospital....with Covid. Mean time we are getting ready to re-instate mask mandates at work and the state has already mandated it.

[Frederick_Law]

And there are people blocking hospital:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavir ... -1.5583017

[zxys001]

And there are people blocking hospital:


bless their ignorant hearts,.... the only joy I have been getting out of all of this insanity are the videos showing someone getting duct taped to a chair.

[mike miller]

Just got back from FABTECH yesterday. https://www.fabtechexpo.com/

There's more cool stuff there than the mind can fathom. By evening, I was pretty much shell-shocked from watching lasers tearing across a sheet at warp speed. The fastest one there was Eagle's 20 KW machine with 14,000 IPM rapids and 6G accel/decel. forces. That one could only cut 9 holes per second in 20 ga. BTW, list price.........$1.6 million.

[DennisD]

Just got back from FABTECH yesterday. https://www.fabtechexpo.com/

There's more cool stuff there than the mind can fathom. By evening, I was pretty much shell-shocked from watching lasers tearing across a sheet at warp speed. The fastest one there was Eagle's 20 KW machine with 14,000 IPM rapids and 6G accel/decel. forces. That one could only cut 9 holes per second in 20 ga. BTW, list price.........$1.6 million.

Me want one!

[David Matula]

WHAT HAPPENED TO FREEDOM?

[jayar]

WHAT HAPPENED TO FREEDOM?

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

[DennisD]

SAD BUT SO VERY TRUE .....

After dinner a teacher started checking homework done by her students. Her husband is strolling around with a smart phone playing his favorite game.

When reading the last homework notes, the wife starts crying with silent tears....

Her husband saw this and asked, ‘Why are you crying dear? What happened?’

Wife: ‘Yesterday I gave homework to my 1st Standard students, to write something on the topic ... 'MY WISH ’

Husband: ‘OK, but why are you crying?’

Wife: ‘Today while checking the last notes, it made me cry.’
Husband curiously: ‘What’s written in the notes that makes you cry?’

Wife: LISTEN......

My wish is to become a smart phone.

My parents love their smart phone very much.
They care about their smart phone so much that sometimes they forget to care for me.

When my father comes from the office tired, he has time for his smart phone but not for me.

When my parents are doing some important work and smart phone is ringing, within single ring they attend the phone, but not to me...
even if I am crying.

They play games on their smart phones not with me.

When they are talking to someone on their smart phone, they never listen to me even if I am telling them something important.

So, MY WISH is to become a smart phone.

After listening to the note my husband got emotional and asked the wife, ‘Who wrote this??’.

Wife: ‘OUR SON ’......

Gadgets are beneficial, but they are for our ease not to cease the love amongst family and loved ones.

Children see and feel everything what happens with & around them. Things get imprinted on their mind with an everlasting effect. Let’s take due care, so that they do not grow with any false impressions...

[David Matula]

so very true.