BOXX Technologies

[ddemar5651]

Hello All,
My employer has a budget planning meeting coming up in November and I am asking them to consider replacing the two Solidworks workstations due to processor speed. Currently both work stations are Dell towers. I would like to know if anyone has had experience with the BOXX Technologies workstations. These units are about double the cost of a Dell machine however have a faster processor. We currently only use the software to create 3D models, drawings and DXF files, No motion, stress testing or rendering. I am trying to see if working to justify the additional cost for the BOXX Technologies machines is worth the effort. Any feedback would be appreciated.
David

[MJuric]

I've used Boxx Workstation and laptops. No way would I spend the extra money on a BoxxX laptop and unless you absolutely need every last ounce of performance out of the system and have no desire/ability to do any system setup at all you'd be hard pressed to get me to dole out the extra cash for one of their desktops.

Boxxx got their start when most/all of Intels chips were locked and took some doing to over clock. Today that is not the case and if you look at any current CPU they all have base speed and a "Turbo" speed. With the right cooling, settings etc you can get them to go faster than their top "Boosted" speed, but not by much. For instance you might get a 5.0Hrtz to get to a 5.2-5.4hrtz, so 4-8% increase. So now realize that 90% of your time, even more if you're doing 3D modeling, is spent at the sub max speed, you're paying 50-100% more to get a .4-.8% daily increase. So no, I'd never buy one.

As far as being "More stable", "More reliable" etc....not in my experience. Their Desktops don't seem to be much, if any, more stable then most of the desktops I've put together myself and the laptops we had were among the least stable machines for SW I've ever worked on.

On the other hand getting the same specs in a Dell or other system may not be all that less expensive. You may however save a WHOLE lot of money on getting a slightly less decked out Dell or better yet off brand.

As long as you or your IT department is comfortable with a few Windows changes and SW set ups, personally I'd pass on Boxxx or just about any "Solidworks Performance" Desktop or Laptop.

Edit to add: the situation I would by a Boxxx or similar is "I need the most performance out of Solidworks and I will be doing Rendering and non linear simulations nearly 100% of the time and I have no desire/Ability to set the system up....and I'm getting a desktop"

[mike miller]

Two things are king for CAD boxes: CPU speed and the right graphics card/driver. RAM is over-rated IMHO. My computer has 64 GB and I never use more than 20 GB, and that's with >1500 part assemblies fully loaded (not LDR or lightweight). Multiple cores are overrated as well, because CPU driven CAD is basically forced to use only one processor core except for several cases like updating multiple drawing views, rendering, and simulation. Believe me, if one CAD company figured out how to use all your cores for general modeling you would never hear the end of it. I used to think SE used multiple cores for Synch, but they can't either.

The future is GPU based computing IMHO, which is why SE 2022 is now using the GPU for Generative Design. If CAD companies could figure out how to create accurate NURBS models with a GPU, it would totally revolutionize the industry.

[ddemar5651]

thanks for the feed back. Your response is about what I expected based upon the what we use the software for. I just know that we will be needing to upgrade our workstations in the future due to the current processor speeds of 3.4 GHz and 3.8GHz on our current towers. I am concerned that we are to close to the minimum listed requirements of 3.3GHz. The company has all Dell machine and I do not expect them to change. Will look further into Dell. This was the Dell I have provided to them for planning purposes.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/de ... pt5820us_4

[MJuric]

This was the Dell I have provided to them for planning purposes.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/de ... pt5820us_4

I wouldn't do Xeon CPU for a couple reasons, they tend to have slower Hrtz and tend to drive up the price.

For instance that CPU is $571 on New egg and has a turbo speed of 4.6Hrtz. The i9-10900K runs up to 5.3hrtz and is $469 on New Egg. 13% faster CPU for 18% less money.

Xeons are better for servers than they are actual workstations, in my opinion. The mentality is that Xeons are "More stable" and designed for more rigorous use, which they are....but I guarantee you Solidworks will crash 1000 times for every crash you have for some CPU hiccup. In a case where you have a bragillion interactions and are expected to have no downtime, go with a Xeon, in the case that you have to reboot your system twice a day because the software you're using has locked....no need for a Xeon

Beyond the cost of the Chip itself the motherboards are also typically more expensive for Xeon chips.

The other specs look ok. The video card on that system is one generation old but is probably fine for what you're doing. The SSD is "Smallish" but that really is going to depend on how much other stuff get's thrown on the system. Also, if possible, find out the exact make and model of the SSD. There's a HUGE difference between them and that difference could have a larger impact on total performance that the CPU ever could.

You might be able to upgrade the CPU to a a regulars i9, get a larger/better SSD and actually end up with a slightly less expensive system that runs better.

[MJuric]

The future is GPU based computing IMHO, which is why SE 2022 is now using the GPU for Generative Design. If CAD companies could figure out how to create accurate NURBS models with a GPU, it would totally revolutionize the industry.

Combine GPU computing with multi-core use and maybe we wouldn't spend half our day watching our screens doing nothing

[bnemec]

I wouldn't do Xeon CPU for a couple reasons, they tend to have slower Hrtz and tend to drive up the price.

For instance that CPU is $571 on New egg and has a turbo speed of 4.6Hrtz. The i9-10900K runs up to 5.3hrtz and is $469 on New Egg. 13% faster CPU for 18% less money.

Xeons are better for servers than they are actual workstations, in my opinion. The mentality is that Xeons are "More stable" and designed for more rigorous use, which they are....but I guarantee you Solidworks will crash 1000 times for every crash you have for some CPU hiccup. In a case where you have a bragillion interactions and are expected to have no downtime, go with a Xeon, in the case that you have to reboot your system twice a day because the software you're using has locked....no need for a Xeon

Beyond the cost of the Chip itself the motherboards are also typically more expensive for Xeon chips.

The other specs look ok. The video card on that system is one generation old but is probably fine for what you're doing. The SSD is "Smallish" but that really is going to depend on how much other stuff get's thrown on the system. Also, if possible, find out the exact make and model of the SSD. There's a HUGE difference between them and that difference could have a larger impact on total performance that the CPU ever could.

You might be able to upgrade the CPU to a a regulars i9, get a larger/better SSD and actually end up with a slightly less expensive system that runs better.

Well said regarding Xeons. Whatever benefits they may have over the i9s are certainly not worth the drop in clock speed.

[MJuric]

Well said regarding Xeons. Whatever benefits they may have over the i9s are certainly not worth the drop in clock speed.

Xeons really are server farm CPU's rather than workstation CPU's. They are made to run slower and be more stable and I believe that they typically have more onboard cache memory, can more easily run with multiple CPU's. All things that you see in a data server where you want a faster, more stable platform where if something goes bad it effects LOTS of people.

So you get 99.9999% uptime with a Xeon but maybe only 99.8% uptime with a "i" version. So what when you spend 20% of your time rebooting because Office, Solidworks or something else crashed. The added speed is way more beneficial than the potential loss.

[Frederick_Law]

Highest clock rate CPU. 4-8 core. Solidworks doesn't use all cores, yet. Fastest SSD driver you can get.
Setup at least 64GB Pagefile in Windows. That's no.1 reason for SW "Out of Memory".
If you don't do rendering, you don't need fastest Graphic card.

I use SW from 2017-2021 on Dell E7240 laptop. i7-4600U Intel 4400 Graphic

[matt]

I bought a Boxx desktop and a laptop a long time ago. They were both WAY overpriced and the only time I've ever had to make use of a warranty. The desktop came with a ton of extra seemingly irrelevant cables and whatnot. The laptop was one of those 17" laptops that had enough fans to levitate itself, if it weren't 15 lbs. Since then I've bought several dells, an HP, Lenovo, but never again a Boxx. It's just not worth the extra money. They seem like they should be extra heavy duty, but the extra weight is just heavy.

[bnemec]

Xeons really are server farm CPU's rather than workstation CPU's. They are made to run slower and be more stable and I believe that they typically have more onboard cache memory, can more easily run with multiple CPU's. All things that you see in a data server where you want a faster, more stable platform where if something goes bad it effects LOTS of people.

So you get 99.9999% uptime with a Xeon but maybe only 99.8% uptime with a "i" version. So what when you spend 20% of your time rebooting because Office, Solidworks or something else crashed. The added speed is way more beneficial than the potential loss.

right. It just dawned on me I maybe should have clarified that comment is made in the context of this thread. Xeons have a bunch of cool features for server applications that make them hands down winner over i versions in that arena.

[Tom G]

I purchased SolidBox (not BOXX Technologies) workstations years ago, which have run reliably and are overdue for replacement. It's among their Engineering series, which has Xeons both then and now. Their Creative series now looks far more attractive based primarily on speed alone (thanks @MJuric) , for better performance and less cost - which I was advised by them for an equivalent replacement soon. How often do I hear from a salesperson, "You should buy this cheaper model." ?

I will buy from them again based on my experiences. I neither care enough nor have expertise to advise you to do one thing or another with your money.

SolidBox has OS tweaks to optimize performance for Solidworks, which I value regardless of minimal understanding of its details. I do get only serious issues where the software actually fails because it sucks, whereas trivial issues are already handled - both in comparison to using a mundane desktop previously. Admittedly, I had little SWx learning experience before upgrading to a workstation, so that I have since learned to procedurally avoid (some) poor design issues which also improves my performance. Better hardware and better procedures went hand in hand and are difficult for me to distinguish. (Aside, to revisit my first project designs in new software makes me realize that Memory lane is full of potholes and U-turns.)

I feel that their customer service and support is worth the value spent, for professional use. To double down on this opinion, I perform both IT and Design here. Therefore, If my workstation has issues, my own time spent to resolve it also reduces my productive design time. Responsive and straight-shooting support minimizes my event distraction. It's better than my VAR, which I also consider to be top notch, but really VAR issues are about the buggy software.

[MJuric]

I purchased SolidBox (not BOXX Technologies) workstations years ago, which have run reliably and are overdue for replacement. It's among their Engineering series, which has Xeons both then and now. Their Creative series now looks far more attractive based primarily on speed alone (thanks @MJuric) , for better performance and less cost - which I was advised by them for an equivalent replacement soon. How often do I hear from a salesperson, "You should buy this cheaper model." ?

I will buy from them again based on my experiences. I neither care enough nor have expertise to advise you to do one thing or another with your money.

SolidBox has OS tweaks to optimize performance for Solidworks, which I value regardless of minimal understanding of its details. I do get only serious issues where the software actually fails because it sucks, whereas trivial issues are already handled - both in comparison to using a mundane desktop previously. Admittedly, I had little SWx learning experience before upgrading to a workstation, so that I have since learned to procedurally avoid (some) poor design issues which also improves my performance. Better hardware and better procedures went hand in hand and are difficult for me to distinguish. (Aside, to revisit my first project designs in new software makes me realize that Memory lane is full of potholes and U-turns.)

I feel that their customer service and support is worth the value spent, for professional use. To double down on this opinion, I perform both IT and Design here. Therefore, If my workstation has issues, my own time spent to resolve it also reduces my productive design time. Responsive and straight-shooting support minimizes my event distraction. It's better than my VAR, which I also consider to be top notch, but really VAR issues are about the buggy software.

I think that I looked at Solidbox at some point. It seems that they are more realistic, in comparison to Boxxx, with there prices but always wondered what their relationship to Dell was and whether you could just go thru Dell and get the same thing, possibly cheaper.

There creative series looks exactly like what you would want for SW. My only complaint is that their graphics cards seems to be woefully underpowered. That may just be an issue with the fact that Video cards are akin to mixing platinum and gold these days and they are just going 2-3 generations back in order to keep the prices down.

take this system https://www.mysolidbox.com/product/crea ... p-level-2/ and upgrade the Video card to a quadro P2200 or better and you have a solid system. Moving to a P4000 or even better an RTX 4000 and you end up with a really nice system. However video card prices are just plain stupid right now. They've started to come down from their ridiculously high 200% more, prices and are now only 25%-50% more. For instance when the RTX4000 was released in Nov 2018 and was selling for $899 and you could pick them up for the $850 range. Here we are almost three years later and you can't find one for less that $1K and most are in the $1100 to $1300 range....when was the last time computer technology went UP over a three year period of time?

Under normal circumstances that card would be in the $600 dollar range by now.

[Frederick_Law]

Blame crypto farming for video card price and hard drive.
Don't try to buy used video cards. Lots of them are from crypto farm.

[MJuric]

Blame crypto farming for video card price and hard drive.
Don't try to buy used video cards. Lots of them are from crypto farm.

Crypto farming and the Covid. Double wammy.

[MJuric]

Crypto farming and the *bat-fever*. Double wammy.

So C0vid gets converted to "Bat Fever"