3D Print Tech Current Events

Frederick_Law · Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:26 am

For production, look for printers with magnetic build plate.
You can swap build plate and keep printing while someone try to remove parts from the other one.

Also check out belt printers.

If you want fast printer, look for one with build plate not moving. Or only on Z-axis.

Speed is only small part of the equation.
Like all CNC, acceleration, deceleration, start, stop, feed rate affect how fast part can be made.
Radius corners, like in laser cut, helps with faster print.

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:17 am

zxys001 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 6:36 pm the latest "Qidi Tech X-Plus 3" is also one I'd consider... https://qidi3d.com/products/qidi-x-plus-3

His review matches my experience after a few days. I haven't had the heat creep problem, but then again I've only had a couple of prints that stuck to the bed, and only one of those was over a couple of hours.

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:19 am

zxys001 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 6:36 pm the latest "Qidi Tech X-Plus 3" is also one I'd consider... https://qidi3d.com/products/qidi-x-plus-3

His review matches my experience after a few days. I haven't had the heat creep problem, but then again I've only had one print that lasted any length of time. The majority have failed due to lack of bed adhesion.

Frederick_Law · Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:11 am

https://q5d.com/
https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/200 ... em-221675/
Print wire inplace.

zxys001 · Unread post by **zxys001** » Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:04 pm

SPerman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:19 am His review matches my experience after a few days. I haven't had the heat creep problem, but then again I've only had one print that lasted any length of time. The majority have failed due to lack of bed adhesion.

Sounds like they missed the mark in some areas. Hopefully the remedy's will be coming soon. I think dialing back the speed to achieve quality would be the obvious compromise.

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:30 pm

I've dialed the speeds and accelerations back to what I'm using on my Raise 3d. I can't really comment on print quality, because no matter what I do, the ABS doesn't stick to the bed. I've got a couple more things to try this evening. If I still don't have any success I will be contacting the company to return the unit, and the Bambu X1 Carbon will be the next test subject.

Frederick_Law · Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:52 pm

https://www.matterhackers.com/articles/ ... d-adhesion

Frederick_Law · Thu Apr 27, 2023 2:11 pm

Belt printer is better for production:
https://store.creality.com/ca/products/ ... header_1.1

Probably need temperature controlled enclosure for ABS.

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:02 pm

Today's Update:

Tech support sent me a firmware update that was supposed to help with bed adhesion. The update failed and bricked the printer. I've contacted support to return it.

mattpeneguy · Unread post by **mattpeneguy** » Thu Apr 27, 2023 6:04 pm

SPerman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:02 pm Today's Update:

Tech support sent me a firmware update that was supposed to help with bed adhesion. The update failed and bricked the printer. I've contacted support to return it.

Well, you don't have bed adhesion problems with it anymore...
Kidding aside, working with ABS is difficult. Fred's given some good advice above.

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Thu Apr 27, 2023 7:55 pm

I've printed ABS for years, and have an approach that works well for me. The hype of this printer was that it works great out of the box; I didn't need another science experiment. I've never had much luck with ABS on powder coated steel. I was going to try some different bed materials, but that is no longer an option.

Frederick_Law · Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:23 am

If something worked for years, copy that.
What did you use for bed surface before?
Print setting shouldn't change much, fan off and maintain bed temp.
Keep the heat in the printer.

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:41 am

They sent me a fix this morning that recovered the machine. I just tried my go to for ABS. Glue stick on glass. Unfortunately the prox sensor doesn't detect the glass, so that didn't work.

Frederick_Law · Fri Apr 28, 2023 11:57 am

Black marker on where the prox check?
Paper?
Can it measure without glass. Add offset and don't check again on every print?

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Sun Apr 30, 2023 2:56 pm

After several more days with this printer, it has serious issues. The biggest being that the Z offset is merely a suggestion. I thought that would be improved by heat soaking the chamber for an hour before using the machine, and by running the ABL at the start of the print. I don't know if they helped or not. If they did, it wasn't enough. From print to print the Z offset would vary by as much as 0.4mm. I could still produce usable prints if I steed at the printer while it did the bed leveling routine, and then tweak the z offset while it is printing the skirt.

The ABL also has issues. I tried to print with the bed full of parts. At the front of the bed the nozzle could barely extrude because the bed was so close. At the rear the filament wouldn't stick because it was too far away.

I finally gave up when I discovered a print that started ok later failed and caused the machine to damage itself.

Frederick_Law · Mon May 01, 2023 9:31 am

Wow my Prusa Clone keep bed way better.
I can leave it off for weeks and starting printing again without leveling bed.

My old M3D need bed level before every print. It'll still be wrong.

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Mon May 01, 2023 10:58 am

There is a rumor on the internet that they've stopped selling this machine due to the number of problems.

Today after ask about my order i get answer:
"Because some users reported that there are some problems with X-Plus 3, we decided to stop selling this machine. At present, there is no specific notification of the re-launch and delivery time."
Currently it's unavailable on all regions.

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Mon May 01, 2023 11:13 am

Their web site claims a full refund within 30 days without any reason. So far they've offered to send me a bunch of replacement parts and a $300 rebate, but are balking at refunding the machine.

I left a negative review on their web site, but it appears they only post the 5 star glowing reviews.

Regardless of what comes of this printer, I've learned everything I need to know about Qidi as a company.

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Tue May 02, 2023 9:09 am

Final update: Qidi issued a full refund.

Bambu X1C is on order.

Frederick_Law · Tue May 02, 2023 2:25 pm

No PRUSA or Creality?
Ulitmaker?

Frederick_Law · Wed May 10, 2023 11:48 am

Rugged Bambu P1P:

zxys001 · Unread post by **zxys001** » Fri May 12, 2023 6:44 pm

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 11:48 am Rugged Bambu P1P:

That is a very good idea!

And found one which also would work.
https://www.sweetwater.com/c459--Rack_C ... lsrc=aw.ds

Arthur NY · Unread post by **Arthur NY** » Sun May 14, 2023 1:00 am

Ultimaker S7!!!!!!!!!!!! These are amazing machines....

https://ultimaker.com/3d-printers/s-ser ... imaker-s7/

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Sun May 14, 2023 2:05 pm

zxys001 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:03 pm Or,.. Bambu Labs X1

The hype about the X1 carbon is well deserved. I set this printer up 3 1/2 days ago, and all it does is spit out parts. Despite the fact that the printer runs 3+ x faster, the print quality is better than anything I've seen in the past. I will probably be getting one of these for the house and retiring one of the CR-10s. (The only reason to keep one of those is for the larger build plate.)

With the exception of the tray, all of those parts are 100% infill. I've printed PLA, PET-CF and ABS from bambu, as well as hatchbox ABS. Zero issues, just parts. for $1200, this thing is pretty incredible.

zxys001 · Unread post by **zxys001** » Sun May 14, 2023 9:12 pm

SPerman wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 2:05 pm The hype about the X1 carbon is well deserved. I set this printer up 3 1/2 days ago, and all it does is spit out parts. Despite the fact that the printer runs 3+ x faster, the print quality is better than anything I've seen in the past. I will probably be getting one of these for the house and retiring one of the CR-10s. (The only reason to keep one of those is for the larger build plate.)

IMG_1408.JPG

With the exception of the tray, all of those parts are 100% infill. I've printed PLA, PET-CF and ABS from bambu, as well as hatchbox ABS. Zero issues, just parts. for $1200, this thing is pretty incredible.

Sweet! I hate you

Arthur NY · Unread post by **Arthur NY** » Mon May 15, 2023 7:43 am

@SPerman If I can ask why are you printing at 100% infill?

Also how does a model like this print?

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2656594/makes

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Mon May 15, 2023 7:55 am

Arthur NY wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 7:43 am @SPerman If I can ask why are you printing at 100% infill?

Because these are production parts used in our machnes.

Arthur NY wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 7:43 am
Also how does a model like this print?

Benchmark.png
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2656594/makes

I have no idea. I don't need to print anything that looks like that.

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Mon May 15, 2023 8:12 am

On the left is a stop for the crossbar. It uses a cam lever from a bicycle seat clamp to lock it in place.

In the middle is a handle for the clevis pin.

On the right is an IR temp sensor mount, that is spring loaded for quick and easy repositioning.

All of these are ABS printed at 100% infill.

Arthur NY · Unread post by **Arthur NY** » Tue May 16, 2023 7:30 pm

I get that it's for production parts but printing at 100% does have a diminishing return vs using DFAM techniques to create internal structures which will net an even stronger model than what any 100% infill will do. Definitely worth investigating especially considering the impact reduction in print time and material cost.

Arthur NY · Unread post by **Arthur NY** » Tue May 16, 2023 7:46 pm

Also the reason why I asked about that part specifically is that it helps to qualify the machines overall capability. You're the one here saying how good the machine is so even if you don't print that model, what are the tolerances that the machine consistently makes when it comes to overall capability.

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Wed May 17, 2023 7:28 am

I get why you asked that. I've been using / tweaking /improving 3d printers for over a decade. I didn't buy this printer to win the printer wars. I bought it as a production tool, and for what I need it is fantastic. I'm sure there are 100 videos on you tube showing how it performs on all of the challenging test pieces, but that isn't why I bought the machine.

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Wed May 17, 2023 7:51 am

I thought of a better (theoretical) analogy.

I have a mustang in my garage at home. It is a blast to drive, but there are times when it is down, and there is always something that needs to be done to it.

This new printer is the Honda Accord sitting in the driveway. I don't know what it's 0-60 time is, and I don't care. As long as it starts up and gets me where I need to go everyday it is 100% meeting my needs.

Frederick_Law · Wed May 17, 2023 8:57 am

The only test you need, is the product you need.

Those are "calibration" print. If the printer don't need calibration, you don't need to print it

Frank_Oostendorp · Wed May 17, 2023 9:12 am

Arthur NY wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 7:30 pm using DFAM techniques to create internal structures which will net an even stronger model than what any 100% infill will do.

Could you show an example of a part that is stronger with an infill less than 100% compared to a massive one?

Frederick_Law · Wed May 17, 2023 11:19 am

DFAM require you know all the load cases.
Not all DFAM could combine load cases.
It "optimize" material to load.
Usually increase load to weight ratio.
Not necessarily "stronger".
"stronger" than another part with less material.

Also ONLY if the DFAM include layer adhesion for FDM.

DFAM works wonder with a powder printer.

Frederick_Law · Wed May 17, 2023 11:28 am

https://www.massivit3d.com/

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Wed May 17, 2023 11:34 am

That looks like it should be a joke.

: image.png (78.4 KiB) Viewed 21302 times

I'm guessing that a walk in printer is out of our budget.

Frederick_Law · Wed May 17, 2023 1:11 pm

That's not a joke.
They got 3 different printers.

This is a joke, happening in the SWYP:

Maybe NSFW

jcapriotti · Unread post by **jcapriotti** » Wed May 17, 2023 1:13 pm

SPerman wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 11:34 am That looks like it should be a joke.

image.png

I'm guessing that a walk in printer is out of our budget.

Honey, I shrunk the engineer?

Arthur NY · Unread post by **Arthur NY** » Fri May 19, 2023 1:31 pm

Frank_Oostendorp wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 9:12 am Could you show an example of a part that is stronger with an infill less than 100% compared to a massive one?

First.... 100% infill does not mean that it is 100% infilled if we're really going to break it down to all the bits and bytes. Especially with with FDM printers there are gaps throughout the layers in unintended ways which are very much part specific, settings required/adjusted, etc. For example take a model that's been FDM printed on any machine and cut it open afterwards or go all out and CT scan it and get a full read on the inside of the model. Depending on what the model is being used for, it could very well be suffice. The optimal thing here is that the infill can have random spacing, waving,...etc throughout the model that was not intended and make cause failures down the road.

Second.... DFAM is an entire process which, in the end, helps a user understand how to optimize a model for AM use based on a whole host of criteria such a the AM method, material being used, loads...etc. So this is something that is easily shown in software such as nTopology or other Generative design software's. AM is not about just making a solid block just because you can, that's just not the best or more efficient way of going about using it.

The FDM process are anisotropic so again, orientation is another factor that just doing 100% infill may or may not solve what the actual intended end goal is.

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:33 am

Arthur NY wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 7:43 am @SPerman If I can ask why are you printing at 100% infill?

Also how does a model like this print?

Benchmark.png
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2656594/makes

I liked the Bambu Carbon so much I bought one for the house. Over the past few weeks I've been printing that sample part on the bambu, as well as the other printers at my disposal. Last night I spent a good bit of time taking pictures of all of the samples, and the conclusion is I am not a photographer.

The Bambu is by far the best of the 4 printers I tested. (Creality CR-10, Raise3d N2, Raise3d E2)

The raise3d printers are old and tired, and it showed in the test parts. These printers will be replaced by a 2nd Bambu carbon, if we reach the point that the current printer can't keep up.

The cr10 was pretty good, all things considered. It also has a lot of miles on it, but it has many upgrades from a stock cr-10.

I tested several different print settings and filaments on the carbon. There were minor variations between the prints, but they were consistently good.

The overhang tests are where it performs the poorest, and then only at the end.

There is some very fine stringing on some of the prints at the bridge and the tower locations.

I can't say how it compares to a higher end machine, but the Bambu Carbon easily outperforms any machine I've personally operated (which includes a few more than what is listed above.)

If you are interested, I can compile all of the pictures and relevant printer/slicer/settings info. It will likely tell you more about my photography skills than the printers. I can even box them up and ship them to you. I am curious how the quality compares to an Ultimaker.

@matt If it makes sense to pull the Bambu X1 carbon posts into a separate thread, feel free to do so.

zxys001 · Unread post by **zxys001** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 12:08 pm

https://www.greenbiz.com/article/lockhe ... m-ev-parts

Frederick_Law · Thu Jun 15, 2023 3:49 pm

https://all3dp.com/1/3d-printing-lattic ... ate-guide/
Move beyond infills to lattices for lighter weight, better functioning 3D printed parts and products. Learn the techniques and the top software tools.

christian chu · Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:36 am

Arthur NY wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:11 am @christian chu Not saying that you should have buyers envy, and not knowing exactly what you're using 3DP for, but we did a side by side test about 5 years ago of Stratasys's F-Series vs Ultimakers S5.... this was evaluating number of materials the machine could use, cost of materials, build envelope, speed, cost of ownership, consumables, and throughput and it wasn't even close, the S5 ran circles around the F-Series.

We printed the same models on both the S5 and the F-170, F-270, and F-370 and quality/looks wise there was very little difference. Material cost and range is also where the S5 ran circles around the F-Series. And one of the best aspects was the use of PVA support material which dissolves in just plain water.

Maybe when the Elite is gone they'll let you take a look at getting an S5.....

Thank you for info.
We're using 3D printer to build parts for prototype, testing and production tools

zxys001 · Unread post by **zxys001** » Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:51 pm

SPerman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:19 am His review matches my experience after a few days. I haven't had the heat creep problem, but then again I've only had one print that lasted any length of time. The majority have failed due to lack of bed adhesion.

Hey @SPerman , looks like they fixed it!

SPerman · Unread post by **SPerman** » Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:36 am

I'm glad they made it right. I put mine in the dumpster as soon as they issued a refund. I still love my X1 Carbons. (Both of which are running as I type this.)

Frederick_Law · Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:05 am

For those with a Bamboo:
https://all3dp.com/4/bambu-lab-cloud-er ... s-damaged/
A Bambu Lab cloud services outage appears to have caused users' 3D printers to start jobs unprompted, some suffering severe damage, due to "job jamming".

zxys001 · Unread post by **zxys001** » Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:07 am

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:05 am For those with a Bamboo:
https://all3dp.com/4/bambu-lab-cloud-er ... s-damaged/
A Bambu Lab cloud services outage appears to have caused users' 3D printers to start jobs unprompted, some suffering severe damage, due to "job jamming".

seems like it happened a few days ago.. the AI is trying to print itself!

jcapriotti · Unread post by **jcapriotti** » Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:39 am

zxys001 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:07 am seems like it happened a few days ago.. the AI is trying to print itself!

Skynet trying to create an army

Cadmonkeychris · Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:50 am

I have a P1S for use on a project. I was having issues getting jobs to print through the cloud so ended up sending to the SD card. I did wonder if the lost jobs would reappear unwanted at some point. Fortunately I disconnect mine from the mains when not in use!

Nice printer, otherwise.