Surfacing with 3dscan data as template

[FMAAID]

Hi,
I work for a FAA repair station and we refurbish the interior, mainly the seat covers. I have a 3d scanner ( artech Eva) that I use for pretty much everything. For example I 3d scan the seat, process the data and then import a pointcloud to SW and use the mesh prep wiz. I use the curve wiz after than to get my section profiles and then start surfacing from there. Once I have a good surface model I take that into a SW plugin called exactflat, then that is what I use to flatten the surfaces and get my seat patterns.

My current workflow sucks due to SW, I have to decimate my meshes down to a iphone quality scan so SW can handle to amount of data.
Then the second part is creating all the surfaces takes about 2 days using mainly boundry surfaces then patch in the rest.

I am just wondering if there is anyone out there in my boat?

I have been looking at a bunch of reverse engineering software that has the right tools to extract the surfaces or has tools that work for creating freeform surfaces easily. Power surface is up there, quicksurface (mesh2surface) was ok, then were was geomagic but that is $20,000.

[mattpeneguy]

Hey @zxys001,
Have you seen this?

Paul is one of the surfacing experts here on the forum. He may know of more tools than you've mentioned. I'm guessing for what you are doing SW may not be the right tool. But, I have no idea what that tool you should use.

We had a 3D scanning company come out and do some work on one of our bridges and they imported the data into SW. But that was about 6 or 7 years ago and I don't know what other tools they used.

[Frederick_Law]

Scanning is one thing, process the data is another.
Check the software come with your scanner. It should has some editing capability.
Clean it up before sending to CAD.

And as you've found out, you'll need to paid to play.

Just to help you think I know what I'm talking about:

[FMAAID]

Hi Fred,
The scanner came with Artech studio 13 I use that to do any mesh editing such as combining scans, positioning and decimation.
It does not have any tools to extract surfaces however

[Frederick_Law]

I have Sense 3D. It can close a scan into a solid with max scan volume.

[FMAAID]

Yeah, Vx Model ( the software that comes with creaform scanners) does have a surface creation tool. I demoed it and it was ok but it left me with a bunch of unjoined surfaces which rekkd SW

[Frederick_Law]

Looks like Artech can patch a scan into a solid.

[FMAAID]

I looked and I think that is only for artech studio 14 or 15, for us to go to 14 it is $2500.( we are on studio 13)
Might be worth a demo though

[Frederick_Law]

Solidworks could make surface from mesh:

ScanTo3D?

[FMAAID]

That might be a option, I will look into that.

[matt]

I've done what you are doing in SW and it's painful. Geomagic is the grandaddy of scan and mesh. I think NX can do it. You mentioned powerSurfacing, which would be my bet. Possibly Rhino.

[zxys001]

Hey @zxys001,
Have you seen this?

Paul is one of the surfacing experts here on the forum. He may know of more tools than you've mentioned. I'm guessing for what you are doing SW may not be the right tool. But, I have no idea what that tool you should use.

We had a 3D scanning company come out and do some work on one of our bridges and they imported the data into SW. But that was about 6 or 7 years ago and I don't know what other tools they used.

My first question would be, how accurate, or are they flexible, is this the only scan or are there multiple datasets to reference/overlay (how do you know it is what it is or is it already verified, CMM)?
I personally do not know the other software tools but recognize they are common in use. His past version may not have some of what many of todays tools have so.. maybe the upgrade to get the X_T or STEP export is worth?
I would think the scan data or point cloud can be used in most other tools.
BTW, can he share the data, under NDA, so we can view/suggest options?
Reverse engineering or scan data is a pita, imho,.. the scanner, resolution and quality of the data of course important.. but, if you're good with how to filter/parse the scatter, all the best.
I'd use Rhino3D and MeshLab (or another mesh tool) to do convert/manipulate the data.

[mattpeneguy]

Anybody know whether the software that Faro makes is good for this? They make expensive hardware for reverse engineering (that's what I've seen for reverse engineering at a machine shop), maybe their software is good? The demo is free. But I have no idea what it costs. Here's a link:
https://www.faro.com/en/Products/Softwa ... g-Software

[SPerman]

I've used both Faro and Romer arms and neither of them came with software to process the point clouds. The guys who did that the place I worked before used Rhino, but I have no experience with it, so I don't know the process.

[mattpeneguy]

I've used both Faro and Romer arms and neither of them came with software to process the point clouds. The guys who did that the place I worked before used Rhino, but I have no experience with it, so I don't know the process.

Yeah, I guess I wasn't clear. No it does not appear that the software I linked to comes with any of the equipment that they make.
One thing to note is that Cura is maintained by one of the 3D printer makers and it's a very good slicer (and I've heard the same of Prusaslicer, also maintained by a 3D printer manufacturer)...Maybe the same is true of the Faro software?

[FMAAID]

My first question would be, how accurate, or are they flexible, is this the only scan or are there multiple datasets to reference/overlay (how do you know it is what it is or is it already verified, CMM)?
The scans have a claimed accuracy of .05mm, I have seen errors of 1". My scans are multiple scans that get combined in artech eva, a single point cloud is exported after that. ( I included some pics of my scan data)

I personally do not know the other software tools but recognize they are common in use. His past version may not have some of what many of todays tools have so.. maybe the upgrade to get the X_T or STEP export is worth?
not sure

I would think the scan data or point cloud can be used in most other tools.
BTW, can he share the data, under NDA, so we can view/suggest options?
Some yes, others no

Reverse engineering or scan data is a pita, imho,.. the scanner, resolution and quality of the data of course important.. but, if you're good with how to filter/parse the scatter, all the best.
I'd use Rhino3D and MeshLab (or another mesh tool) to do convert/manipulate the data.

My best workflow that I have found and slapped together is.
1. export scan data from artech studio. 2. use austodesk recap to convert mesh to quads. 3. use fusion360 to convert the quads to tsplines and then finally export the surfaces as a step or iges. 4. import to solidworks and use exactflat to get the patterns out.
This was a failure though because I lost too much detail

[FMAAID]

I've done what you are doing in SW and it's painful. Geomagic is the grandaddy of scan and mesh. I think NX can do it. You mentioned powerSurfacing, which would be my bet. Possibly Rhino.

I am stuck with SW (for now), I have 4 cnc machines that I have workflows in solidworks. Not to mention the plugins that are already paid for on SW.
So any software I do end up getting will have to be dedicated to mesh 2 surfacing. I really do not want another SW plug in tho, Sw has enough trouble working right all by itself.

[FMAAID]

here are a few more pics

the heli is a work in progress, I am using this in my renderings

The seat is from a h145 and is one of my earlier versions. I used the mesh prep wiz and curve wiz then manual surfaces.

[zxys001]

My best workflow that I have found and slapped together is.
1. export scan data from artech studio. 2. use austodesk recap to convert mesh to quads. 3. use fusion360 to convert the quads to tsplines and then finally export the surfaces as a step or iges. 4. import to solidworks and use exactflat to get the patterns out.
This was a failure though because I lost too much detail

..yeah, I'd do about the same steps using other tools and yes, the details become washed out through the steps/processes.

[FMAAID]

I was just looking as SW 3D sculptor but guessing that I will have problems uploading my massive scan data to their cloud plus some data can not go to the cloud.

That is really disappointing to see SW come out with little cloud based apps instead of adding all of them to SW.
They are not really enough of anything to offer them as a stand alone.
3d sculptor, xdesign have some really cool looking tools that COULD be added to SW IF they wanted to.

Im probably going to do another round of demoing software and then hope I pick the right one.
I was really wanting to see some results of other users using scan data and pulling surfaces.

[MattW]

Ed Eaton gave an interesting presentation at SWW 2017 on this topic.
https://dimontegroup.com/solidworks-wor ... rvy-stuff/

[FMAAID]

i just saw that fusion360 has a pull feature that is similar to geomagics shrinkwrap tool.
It is in the mesh tools and basically you create a flat surface and then use a tool to pull it to the shape of your mesh. Pretty cool
This looks promising for the seat portion of my workflow.

[raneum]

Check out Spaceclaim for the mesh tools.

[Arthur NY]

You're not going to get a better set of tools to deal with mesh data and reverse engineering than the following two plug-ins

Power Surfacing https://www.npowersoftware.com/NewPower ... rview.html

and

Mesh2Surface https://www.mesh2surface.com/mesh2surfa ... olidworks/

[RichGergely]

Bring this thread back alive.

It just beggars belief in 2022 we are in this situation with Solidworks.

We have have 3D Sculptor on the the platform no-one wants to use when it should be within Soildworks not a seperate app. We have surfacing that is less capable than some CAD systems from 20+ years ago. The route for reverse engineering from scans in Solidworks is plainly inadequate.

We should really get behind a push to fix this in the next round of the top ten list.

[Arthur NY]

@RichGergely While you're not wrong, this just isn't an area that Solidworks or even DDS as a while is interested in taking on internally. They're basically leaving this to 3rd party add-ons to do what you're asking. They've quite literally have NOT changed the Scan to 3D aspect of the software in over 15 years. There have MAYBE been one or two little things added but nothing really that worth noting.

That said the softwares that come with most higher end 3D scanners $10K or more, have the ability to convert a mesh to a BREP/NURBS. This is a VERY big part of the process that will help to alleviate much of the bottle neck of the RE process. The main three options to take a look at are Power Surfacing, Geomagic, and Quick Surface... all offering various levels of reverse engineering features.

Not saying that you can't make a gallant effort but considering that the overall efforts of DDS right now is to shift everyone to the 3D experience platform and less about adding anything to Solidworks, I'm just not sure that this is going to happen.

[RichGergely]

@Arthur NY I agree it's a uphill battle, scratch that probably more like looking at a vertical cliff face standing at the bottom. I'm in the middle of re-surfacing organic surfaces at the moment. Out of interest I rang up my VAR to ask about 3D sculptor and the guy I spoke to knew nothing about it which shows the disconnect between the 3D platform and the desktop version.

He said there were partners they work with, as you mention and others, that could probably help to some extent. I sent over what I was working on a few days ago to get there options but not heard back.

Bottom line, I will carry on with projects with organic surfaces and I will get them finished and everyone will be happy. I may end up purchasing additional software in the future to streamline this type of work but it grates that the software I have progress in the three key areas is slow - STL to surfaces - Sculpting - more powerful surfacing.

[Arthur NY]

@RichGergely If you can describe what it is that you want to do a bit more, like what you're looking to do I might be able to help narrow down where you may want to look in terms of additional software.

The challenge with the VAR's, and I wrote about this is another thread, is that they're way too big now and there has been a loss in translation that's happened especially in terms of tech support and overall knowledge. Granted there's a lot more to know now a days which means that the VAR's really have have tech support people that all have general overall knowledge but also specialist. This does exist to a certain extent but that the person you spoke with didn't even know is not good. He/she should have at least known who to point you to within the organization that can answer the question.

What I can say is that 3D Sculptor is basically they're approach to SubD modeling and as SubD modeling goes, in the grand scale of overall 3D software, it's just "ok". I'd give it a 3 MAYBE 4 at best. None of the CAD softwares companies really get what this modeling approach is about. It just feels like it is a tacked on solution rather than being a full bore approach to how this methodology works.

[KQuigley]

It’s not just a Solidworks issue. All the main platforms have issues with this.
There are specialist pieces of software that do this but it is NOT a push button activity.
Power Surfacing has been mentioned and we use that for sub d work inside SolidWorks. The original versions included the reverse engineering toolset but they soon realised this could be an extra cost option! I think they do a 30 day trial so try it.

To be honest though the app we use for this now is Rhino. The inclusion of subd tools changed this and made Rhino very usable for reverse engineering. Add to the fact that you can extract curves from meshes, create faceted nurbs surfaces from meshes (and have a decent performance after doing it) or drape surfaces, loft, sub d whatever onto a mesh means it is a great toolset. Again, they do a free trial that extends to a viewing app should you choose not to buy.

For reference, we do this in Rhino ourselves, albeit not that often now.

[KQuigley]

Also one more thing. If you want a really useful surfacing tool get the XNurbs add on for Solidworks and/or Rhino. Very handy and won’t break the bank.

[tk421]

Not sure if anyone is still reading this thread or not, and i certainly did not go through it with comb to see if this was mentioned already- PowerShape is a viable option for mesh modelling. you're able to scan directly into it & go from there. it's not super expensive, either. the down side is it is now an Autotrash product and only available via subscription.