Is everything on lease or subscription?

[MJuric]

This seems to be absolutely crazy. I'm looking for a simple decent technical manual writing software. 95% of what is out there is on subscription and largely at, at least to me, ridiculous prices. So I pay every month in perpetuity for something I will use "Every once in a while"?

I get this approach if you're planning on using it everyday or very regularly, but anyone else would be a fool to do this. So I use it a lot the first couple months to get things set up, but then every time I have to make a change I end up paying the entire months subscription for a couple hours of usage? It's like paying for a year long lease, driving 1000 miles the first months, 250 the next and then 25 miles every month after that. At then end of the year you don't own a thing, you no longer have a car and you paid for 10X more than what you needed.

[mike miller]

Check out OpenOffice or LibreOffice. Both are free and open source AFAIK. If not, I've got some installation files for you...

[MJuric]

Check out OpenOffice or LibreOffice. Both are free and open source AFAIK. If not, I've got some installation files for you...

I'm complaining more about the move to subscription for everything. It seems to me that this is a "Trick" for these companies to just bleed you dry. You can't simply make a one time investment and use the software as you see fit. You pay maintenance every month so you have the privilege of being able to modify your own data.

For what it's worth I actually found Scribus which is open source and closer to what I may be looking for.

[Roasted By John]

I'm complaining more about the move to subscription for everything. It seems to me that this is a "Trick" for these companies to just bleed you dry. You can't simply make a one time investment and use the software as you see fit. You pay maintenance every month so you have the privilege of being able to modify your own data.

For what it's worth I actually found Scribus which is open source and closer to what I may be looking for.

Matt - Feel free to signup for us to ship you a Meal Once a week, at least at the end of the day you'll have something left to chew on

[MJuric]

Matt - Feel free to signup for us to ship you a Meal Once a week, at least at the end of the day you'll have something left to chew on

Won't it be cold by the time it gets here?

We were looking at water softeners several years back. My wife stopped at a local place to talk to them and the guy she was talking to asked that she take a sample of the cold water, then turn the hot water on and let it get as hot as it can, let it run for a while and take a sample of that. Then bring both of the samples to them for testing.

Yep, she asked the guy "Won't the hot water be cold by the time I get here?". The guy was completely professional about it and explained that if it got cold that would be fine. It wasn't until she got home and told me the story....and after I regained my composure after laughing my @$$ off, that I explained to her why he wanted samples like that and that the actual temperature didn't matter.

I still throw that in now and then when appropriate

[Frederick_Law]

People nowaday don't want to own anything.
Keep a lease and get new one whenever.
That's why most can't go without income. All those monthly payments.

[matt]

This seems to be absolutely crazy. I'm looking for a simple decent technical manual writing software. 95% of what is out there is on subscription and largely at, at least to me, ridiculous prices. So I pay every month in perpetuity for something I will use "Every once in a while"?

I get this approach if you're planning on using it everyday or very regularly, but anyone else would be a fool to do this. So I use it a lot the first couple months to get things set up, but then every time I have to make a change I end up paying the entire months subscription for a couple hours of usage? It's like paying for a year long lease, driving 1000 miles the first months, 250 the next and then 25 miles every month after that. At then end of the year you don't own a thing, you no longer have a car and you paid for 10X more than what you needed.

Yeah, welcome to the 2010s. You can't buy anything and own it any more. Gotta have that revenue stream. Everybody has to collect data on you, even though they can't think of anything better to do with it than put ads in front of me that I ignore.

[MJuric]

Yeah, welcome to the 2010s. You can't buy anything and own it any more. Gotta have that revenue stream. Everybody has to collect data on you, even though they can't think of anything better to do with it than put ads in front of me that I ignore.

I think subscriptions/Leases etc are a great idea under the right circumstances, but they just don't fit for a lot of things. The smart company would provide both options like car dealers. "Buy now, get what you get and keep it for ever with single term support, no updates etc". "Buy a subscription, get continued support and updates as long as your subscription is active".

To the contrary however it seems everyone is either one or the other with a continued move toward subscription. I can go lease a car or outright by one. Why is software any different? Hell we can even do this with furniture, but not software.

[Frederick_Law]

Bill people every month, they'll forgot to pay.
Put them on subscription, they forgot they're paying.

[Roasted By John]

Won't it be cold by the time it gets here?

We were looking at water softeners several years back. My wife stopped at a local place to talk to them and the guy she was talking to asked that she take a sample of the cold water, then turn the hot water on and let it get as hot as it can, let it run for a while and take a sample of that. Then bring both of the samples to them for testing.

Yep, she asked the guy "Won't the hot water be cold by the time I get here?". The guy was completely professional about it and explained that if it got cold that would be fine. It wasn't until she got home and told me the story....and after I regained my composure after laughing my @$$ off, that I explained to her why he wanted samples like that and that the actual temperature didn't matter.

I still throw that in now and then when appropriate

lol

We would send the meal frozen and all you do is heat it up - Hopefully in about a year from now or before we will be doing that, I'm planning to get our e-commerce up and running this summer and then we will have the base set up and ready to add product. Let me know if you want us to make your Thanksgiving Dinner

[MJuric]

lol

We would send the meal frozen and all you do is heat it up - Hopefully in about a year from now or before we will be doing that, I'm planning to get our e-commerce up and running this summer and then we will have the base set up and ready to add product. Let me know if you want us to make your Thanksgiving Dinner

Will you be doing Turducken?

[Frederick_Law]

One turkey leg.
Do you accept dogcoin?

[mike miller]

One turkey leg.
Do you accept dogcoin?

Only 3DExperience-coin is allowed here.

[Roasted By John]

Will you be doing Turducken?

Good chance - but they are super expensive, a 20lb turkey with a duck and chicken is probably $130 or so

[JSculley]

Will you be doing Turducken?

Or better yet: Thanksgiving Turduckenen-duckenen

[Roasted By John]

One turkey leg.
Do you accept dogcoin?

Dogcoin?? we don't at the moment, but we might at the next hydrant..

[SPerman]

Can I pay with forum points?

[Frederick_Law]

Or better yet: Thanksgiving Turduckenen-duckenen

Definitely a pyramid scam.

[MJuric]

Good chance - but they are super expensive, a 20lb turkey with a duck and chicken is probably $130 or so

Hmmm, I always just thought you lined up a chicken, duck and turkey on the highway and hit the chicken at about 70 MPH....

[SPerman]

The problem with the "purchase" model is that a lot of customers will buy it once and your revenue stream dries up. My nearly 20 year old copy of photoshop still does everything I need it to do. (Actually I think it died on 12/31/2020, but up until then it still worked great.) It is hard for companies to pay for the expense of developing new software, if only a small percentage of the users are paying after the initial purchase.

[Frederick_Law]

Company want to get money from user who don't want to pay.
Problem is, those didn't want to pay never will.
Those afford to paid can't afford the new pricing structure.

One of my software went from $50 per version for 5pcs to $150 per year for one pc.

[MJuric]

The problem with the "purchase" model is that a lot of customers will buy it once and your revenue stream dries up. My nearly 20 year old copy of photoshop still does everything I need it to do. (Actually I think it died on 12/31/2020, but up until then it still worked great.) It is hard for companies to pay for the expense of developing new software, if only a small percentage of the users are paying after the initial purchase.

And yet the automotive industry switches models every 3-5 years and you can either lease or buy out right.

I think what is happening is that we have created a ton of "Developer" jobs and are running out of actual unique and innovative ideas to develop.

So SW has a staff of 2K or so and a bunch of them are sitting around "Developing" stuff that 90% of the users are never going to use. It's "Development Bloat" based on the fact they have everyone on subscription and or extort those that aren't. I'm on 2018 SP5 and have yet to see something in 2019,2020 or 2021 that I would look at and say "Wow that would REALLY help and make me more productive". Again I suspect this is the case for 90% of users.

This is the case for many sectors it seems, even health care. We are all on "Subscription health care". We keep sending them money and they come up with a "New fantastic drug" that instead of a 95% chance of curing your issue it has a 96% chance of curing your issue but it cost 100X more than the previous drug....that money is coming from our subscriptions in the same way that new "NoOneIsGoingToUse" feature in SW is paid for with subscription.

[Frederick_Law]

Nobody want a steady business anymore. Its growth growth growth.
Problem is, there are only so may people on earth. Business can't grow non-stop.

[MJuric]

Nobody want a steady business anymore. Its growth growth growth.
Problem is, there are only so may people on earth. Business can't grow non-stop.

I'm a firm believer in the idea that if you're not growing you're dying. That being said selling 10000 copies of your software one year and selling 11000 the next is growth. You can continue that level of growth for 100 years and still only have sold ~100 million copies of your software....we have a lot more people on the planet than that.

Furthermore one would think that a company could come up with another product to sell over that 100 years, which of course is my point. Give me a reason to want to buy your product again and I will. If in 100 years you haven't come up with something that makes your customers want to purchase your product again....you deserve to die.

[Frederick_Law]

Well I don't think everyone want a copy of SW.

In reality one can only grow so big before run out of resource.

[zxys001]

Or better yet: Thanksgiving Turduckenen-duckenen

mmmm... cornish game hen.

[zxys001]

Yeah, welcome to the 2010s. You can't buy anything and own it any more. Gotta have that revenue stream. Everybody has to collect data on you, even though they can't think of anything better to do with it than put ads in front of me that I ignore.

..ex wifes parents were very conservative (from Indiana) and they were into Leasing everything...mainly because they moved a lot because of military and businesses (like Bechtel) they worked with... my thoughts then and now... the own nothings... or rent-a-parasites.

[jcapriotti]

Image if you bought car and could only lease, they don't let you own it. That's what the software companies are attempting, and it stinks. Adobe did it with Photoshop because the market is saturated, their products are mature, and they have little competition. They don't want to work to make it better and "entice" people to buy the new version, so they switched to a lease and force you to pay month to month. So I bought Affinity Photo and Publisher instead, one time purchase for $50.

Autodesk has done the same, all of their software is subscription only. Microsoft Office has done it, PTC has done it. Ironically, CATIA has always been that way. (Found out the hard way in '98 when switching to SolidWorks).

https://www.eoshd.com/adobe/adobe-shamb ... e-illegal/

[RichGergely]

Image if you bought car and could only lease, they don't let you own it. That's what the software companies are attempting, and it stinks. Adobe did it with Photoshop because the market is saturated, their products are mature, and they have little competition. They don't want to work to make it better and "entice" people to buy the new version, so they switched to a lease and force you to pay month to month. So I bought Affinity Photo and Publisher instead, one time purchase for $50.

Autodesk has done the same, all of their software is subscription only. Microsoft Office has done it, PTC has done it. Ironically, CATIA has always been that way. (Found out the hard way in '98 when switching to SolidWorks).

https://www.eoshd.com/adobe/adobe-shamb ... e-illegal/

Microsoft hasn't done it, I'm pretty sure they updated the 2019 to 2021 this year as standalone. Obviously they want you to buy subscription and push that but if you delve deeper you can find the standalone version. I bought the 2019 version when it was first available, I have no intention of upgrading for a good few years.

[mike miller]

By the way, where's @MJuric?

[jayar]

Good chance - but they are super expensive, a 20lb turkey with a duck and chicken is probably $130 or so

Just imagine how fast the chicken must be traveling to not only squeeze into the duck but to propel that into the turkey!