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That's the largest understatement I've seen in a while! I'm still laughing at his reply.
It's either:dave.laban wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:38 am When reading big long lists of tags like that does anyone else read it in a really staccato fashion like each tag symbol is a full stop or something? My brain just can't process text written that way.
Damn I'm slow, I thought he was serious until I read it a second time and caught the subtly of his last sentences.mattpeneguy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:35 am That's the largest understatement I've seen in a while! I'm still laughing at his reply.
It's so subtle. I'm in awe. It's actually kinda beautiful. Like I posted over there, he's won the internet for the day.
Yeah, me too. I wasn't sure until the end. Wow, they could use a sarcasm font!jcapriotti wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:13 pm Damn I'm slow, I thought he was serious until I read it a second time and caught the subtly of his last sentences.
No your not slow. That's about the best crafted thing I've seen in a while. It's a masterpiece! Worthy of an award. And no I'm not joking in the least.jcapriotti wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:13 pm Damn I'm slow, I thought he was serious until I read it a second time and caught the subtly of his last sentences.
We are DOOMED!!!
At the risk of throwing my shoulder out of joint patting myself on the back, I knew he was being sarcastic before I'd finished reading the second sentence. I've been reading (and enjoying) his replies for a long time.
I wasn't exactly sure because I don't know him well enough and also because english isn't my primary language.Glenn Schroeder wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:28 pm At the risk of throwing my shoulder out of joint patting myself on the back, I knew he was being sarcastic before I'd finished reading the second sentence. I've been reading (and enjoying) his replies for a long time.
Glenn Schroeder wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:43 pm Well, yeah, but you can't even use italics or bold text, so . . .
That's a fair summary of my opinion also, without having given it a try though.matt wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 9:48 am For those who want to hear from someone who actually has used 3DX on a project, check out a recent comment on my blog. Not sure how many of you read that as well as this site, but there is from time to time some cross-over in topics.
Anyway, check out this guy's opinion of 3Dx :https://dezignstuff.com/whats-the-diffe ... nt-3235079
His comment sounds about right based on what I can find about it online. The 3dx stuff is still half baked if that. No danger of Desktopworks going away anytime soon IMO. We just get to watch our subscription $$$ wasted on Cloudworks.matt wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 9:48 am For those who want to hear from someone who actually has used 3DX on a project, check out a recent comment on my blog. Not sure how many of you read that as well as this site, but there is from time to time some cross-over in topics.
Anyway, check out this guy's opinion of 3Dx :https://dezignstuff.com/whats-the-diffe ... nt-3235079
I see that post has been edited.
It hasn't been edited, it's been "moderated".
To be honest I can't blame them for doing a little moderating on that one. I can understand the poster's frustration, but that forum isn't just for adults. I suspect the language would have been "moderated" here also.AlexLachance wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:01 pm It hasn't been edited, it's been "moderated".
How delightful to see where free speech is heading.
Reading 10 posts like the moderated version makes the program seem not all that bad, but seeing a post with expressed anger, even though I might not agree with the way he said things, gives a lot more weight to it and makes the program look a lot worse. That is the main reason the post is edited. There were countless foul languages posts on the previous forum that weren't moderated but got answers still, because sometimes the frustration is actually user inflicted. In those case, the user looks silly and the program gets to shine.Glenn Schroeder wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:14 pm To be honest I can't blame them for doing a little moderating on that one. I can understand the poster's frustration, but that forum isn't just for adults. I suspect the language would have been "moderated" here also.
Moderated maybe. But just maybe something was lost in the translation. As in "pardon my French".
ClusterCensorShip! (I really wanted to write that different)AlexLachance wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:45 pm Reading 10 posts like the moderated version makes the program seem not all that bad, but seeing a post with expressed anger, even though I might not agree with the way he said things, gives a lot more weight to it and makes the program look a lot worse. That is the main reason the post is edited. There were countless foul languages posts on the previous forum that weren't moderated but got answers still, because sometimes the frustration is actually user inflicted. In those case, the user looks silly and the program gets to shine.
In this case, it's program inflicted, so that's a much better reason for them to remove the parts of the post that show the level of frustration of the person, especially when you concider the time the program has been in development and how you're paying for them to actually advance the completion of the program, rather then paying for a program that's complete.
Don't want foul language, that's fine, but don't replace a 53 word post with one that's been shortened to 33 words. That's not removing foul language, that's censorship.
Well, that's just the SWYM I call it The Platform's "connected chat room". But it's only connected to content in the platform it's all or nothing.Zhen-Wei Tee wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:37 am FYI...
https://r1132100503382-eu1-3dswym.3dexp ... w-i-d1HXsA
image.png
What is this "code" thing you speak of? And why would one use such a cryptic form of communication? The Platform is about open, connected, omnicomunication such obscurities as this "code" you reference have no place in The Platform.Zhen-Wei Tee wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:06 am FYI, in case anyone want to know "HOW" to insert code block into a SWYMP
image.pngimage.png
Ah, yes... INTUITIVE!Zhen-Wei Tee wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:06 am FYI, in case anyone want to know "HOW" to insert code block into a SWYMP
image.pngimage.png
I have a better method. Log onto the site on your phone. Create whatever code you want on your PC in something like Notepad++. Then snap a picture of your computer monitor on your phone and upload it...This doesn't have to be difficult...
Wow, I didn't figure it's that bad. Give it to Dassault to make a mess like that!!sajekual wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:58 am 2 cents about 3DEXPERIENCE from me as VAR employee... I'll say as much as I can without violating NDA, but still from anonymous account, just in case. I am a software developer by trade. Started working with SW in 2015, was always in love with it, despite it's many quirks. As a developer, I have always criticized the direction SW was taking with new releases - every year it is new features, most of which were never anticipated or planned in the core code, fixes on top of fixes that break more than they fix, UI getting more and more inconsistent, major issues that can't be solved without breaking backwards compatibility. I've always said that SW desperately needs a full, complete re-write from scratch, otherwise it will only get worse every year...
Seriously though, it seems to me that 3DEXPERIENCE has zero chance of ever becoming even a remotely usable product. Yet Dassault is blindly rolling it's most aggressive sales campaign to date, that can only lead to an eventual disaster. I don't see them ever making it work, but nor can I see a way for them to back out of it. And it is quite scary.
Alright, rant mode off
Thanks for the share, thanks for hanging on and trying your best with the hand your dealt. I sincerely hope the captain will accept to turn the ship around, but I'm doubtful at this point.sajekual wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:58 am 2 cents about 3DEXPERIENCE from me as VAR employee... I'll say as much as I can without violating NDA, but still from anonymous account, just in case. I am a software developer by trade. Started working with SW in 2015, was always in love with it, despite it's many quirks. As a developer, I have always criticized the direction SW was taking with new releases - every year it is new features, most of which were never anticipated or planned in the core code, fixes on top of fixes that break more than they fix, UI getting more and more inconsistent, major issues that can't be solved without breaking backwards compatibility. I've always said that SW desperately needs a full, complete re-write from scratch, otherwise it will only get worse every year...
And despite all that, SW is light years ahead the abomination that 3DEXPERIENCE platform is. This platform should have been exactly what I meant - a fresh, clean solution that consolidates the best SW and other connected softwares have to offer, learning from the past mistakes and building a solid core code that is adaptable to future changes. But somehow, 3DEXPERIENCE turned out to be exact opposite - the worst example of "design by committee" that I have ever seen. There were some good ideas and some honest attempts in isolated parts of it - like xDesign, where devs really tried to consolidate core features and UI (for example, realizing that Boss Extrude, Cut and Revolve is basically the same feature with different parameters, so they can be combined into one super-feature), which is what I was hoping for. But with core code of the platform being such a terrible mess, these few good bits are just lost in a sea of bugs, errors and horrendous lag at every mouse click.
I say this after having spent more than a thousand hours learning, testing and debugging this platform, because about a year ago cooperate gave us a directive that we must forget SW Desktop, and shift our focus to the platform. We, technicians, went through A LOT of training to get the hang of the it so we can provide adequate support to our clients. I lost count of how many times I "rage quit" because literally nothing is working. Not imported SW projects, not fresh projects without SW, not even the official demos that we are somehow supposed to show to our clients. Crashes, errors without any technical info, non responsive UI which often makes you wonder if your mouse click was not registered or if you just need to wait 5 more minutes for it to register, messed up files, duplicates, fouled file names, revision clashes, tools disabling themselves for no apparent reason, disappearing geometry, parts with graphics that look like the original Super Mario even on the ultra-high settings...
Debugging is a total nightmare, requiring to set up fiddle traces for the browser almost every time. Personally, I have submitted over 50 tickets to the 3DEXPERIENCE tech team, reporting these issues. Average response time - 2 weeks to each message, almost exclusively from people who speak worse English than my dog, half the time they don't even understand the issue, and sometimes obviously try to downplay it. Of these 50 tickets only around 10 of them were "solved" (meaning they admitted it is a bug, and promised to fix it in the next update - not a single one was fixed so far). And that's just me. Some of my colleagues have submitted far more tickets. When I ask them about it, the usual response is a moan followed by "please don't talk about it".
I even tried using the platform with my hobby SW projects - really, really simple stuff, small assemblies - mostly to make use of revisions, file history and centralized database, nothing fancy - and thank heavens I made full backups of everything, because every single time I tried, my project files were messed up beyond any hope of recovery. Not to mention constant crashes of both SW and the platform in the browser. And even when it works, even the simplest actions, like navigation, saving, loading, opening a sketch (in the browser) takes literal seconds to complete... Sometimes in the double digits. It just makes you want to shoot yourself in the head.
And despite that, we are pressured to sell this abomination to our clients, to market it as the next step in PLM and CAD design. Even as VARs, we really have no say in it. I feel terrible for the clients who have already went on the platform - and they hate us now, flooding us with support tickets that we can't solve, because there are no solutions. This really sits on my conscience - I wish to tell them "don't buy this crap, stay with desktop SW and PDM"... but we're not supposed to say that, no matter what. All hail the glorious platform.
All this is to say... Stay away from this platform if you can. Don't let your workplace management fall into the trap and buy into this "ecosystem". You will go crazy. 3DEXPERIENCE is not just "unpolished" or "still needs work". The very foundations of it are programmed completely wrong, and no amount of patching can fix it. The only hope is for the Dassault to ditch it completely, and start from scratch. Personally, I'd rather they just returned full focus on SW Desktop, and "sacrificed" SW 2023 and SW 2024 (at least) for bug fixes rather than new features...
Seriously though, it seems to me that 3DEXPERIENCE has zero chance of ever becoming even a remotely usable product. Yet Dassault is blindly rolling it's most aggressive sales campaign to date, that can only lead to an eventual disaster. I don't see them ever making it work, but nor can I see a way for them to back out of it. And it is quite scary.
Alright, rant mode off
They're going to have a lot of people interested in keeping the last installed desktop version, even if they don't continue to support new desktop versions. I think they'd have to wait out the OS requirement for the desktop version for it to become obsolete in order for people to consider changing. And since that change will require a massive amount of data migration and system configuration, that change is going to be to a direct competitor instead.dave.laban wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:13 am So what do we think, they going to make a big deal of the 30th anniversary release being the last desktop version and it's "time to move on" to the cloud?
Thanks for the share. I always wonder what is going in the VAR head when they are trying to promote 3DExperience.sajekual wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:58 am ...
...
...
Seriously though, it seems to me that 3DEXPERIENCE has zero chance of ever becoming even a remotely usable product. Yet Dassault is blindly rolling it's most aggressive sales campaign to date, that can only lead to an eventual disaster. I don't see them ever making it work, but nor can I see a way for them to back out of it. And it is quite scary.
Alright, rant mode off
I pity our sales guys... Every single one of them knows just how bad this product is, and they still have to praise it to the clients, knowing all too well the s***storm that will follow once they start using it... And how much that will backfire at us. And yet they have no choice.Zhen-Wei Tee wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:57 am Thanks for the share. I always wonder what is going in the VAR head when they are trying to promote 3DExperience.
The future of the seem bleak.
PS: Even their customer survey UI sucks... A grey text on a grey background, seriously? WTH is wrong with the font size?
All of the DS' UI just scream the opposite of human-centered design.
image.png
My whole team followed the 3DExperience World online last February and I attended a seminar on this platform. I was able to try it and indeed, the backup time (for a simple part) took several seconds… In short, don't move to the platform.
How do we know you're not a shill for Siemens or Autodesk?sajekual wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:33 am I pity our sales guys... Every single one of them knows just how bad this product is, and they still have to praise it to the clients, knowing all too well the s***storm that will follow once they start using it... And how much that will backfire at us. And yet they have no choice.
I feel like there should be something we as VARs should be doing about this - but I talked to my bosses, and they all said the same: if we protest or boycott 3DEXPERIENCE, we will be cut off by DS, and another VAR will take our place.
Now, if all VARs would boycott 3DX together... One can dream.
Yikes, I didn't know that 3DX was as bad as you've outlined. To avoid the price increase slated to come into effect next month we've just extended our subscription for our SW network licenses until 2025. Was that a mistake?sajekual wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:58 am
All this is to say... Stay away from this platform if you can. Don't let your workplace management fall into the trap and buy into this "ecosystem". You will go crazy. 3DEXPERIENCE is not just "unpolished" or "still needs work". The very foundations of it are programmed completely wrong, and no amount of patching can fix it. The only hope is for the Dassault to ditch it completely, and start from scratch. Personally, I'd rather they just returned full focus on SW Desktop, and "sacrificed" SW 2023 and SW 2024 (at least) for bug fixes rather than new features...
Seriously though, it seems to me that 3DEXPERIENCE has zero chance of ever becoming even a remotely usable product. Yet Dassault is blindly rolling it's most aggressive sales campaign to date, that can only lead to an eventual disaster. I don't see them ever making it work, but nor can I see a way for them to back out of it. And it is quite scary.
Alright, rant mode off
Yes it was, that's just their attempt at grabbing the most cash they can before people bail. Don't worry, they got us too, they did us dirty a year earlier so that there would be nothing in sight.SamSpade wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:58 am Yikes, I didn't know that 3DX was as bad as you've outlined. To avoid the price increase slated to come into effect next month we've just extended our subscription for our SW network licenses until 2025. Was that a mistake?
If DS isn't going to provide resources to maintain the desktop versions, did we just pay for something that we'll never benefit from?
Well, I don't know your situation, but if your alternative was switching to 3DX, I think you definitely chose the lesser evilSamSpade wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:58 am Yikes, I didn't know that 3DX was as bad as you've outlined. To avoid the price increase slated to come into effect next month we've just extended our subscription for our SW network licenses until 2025. Was that a mistake?
If DS isn't going to provide resources to maintain the desktop versions, did we just pay for something that we'll never benefit from?
As buggy as SW is, it is still a far superior product. From DS end it was a shameless money grab - scare people with the horror that 3DX was, raise the SW Desktop prices, and then reap profits. But then again, what choice is there, except for switching to another CAD altogether...Just take a look at the "hypothecial replacement" thread... I think the only thing keeping i.e. us there is PDM.sajekual wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:41 pm I wonder, is there anyone else from VARs here on this forum? I would be really interested (I think we all would) what is the word on 3DX and SW Desktop there. I wonder if we could somehow organize a collaborative effort to bring 3DX down... Or at least stir the water a little bit to the client's favor. "Collaboration" is the main marketing word for 3DX. Wouldn't this be a poetic justice...
I think I'm good. I've got all of my content uploaded and secured:mike miller wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:56 amHmmm......... April Fools?
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dave.laban wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:19 am I thought the whole point of cloudy based SAAS was that all the updates were invisible to the end user and didn't require any admin / management on our part?