rotate 2 rings into 1 and fill the gap?

[cadthemall]

i was trying to design a cover for a thing and figured that it could maybe best be done via rotating 2 rings on the same axis (aka tilting the inner ring backwards to make the outer ring go downward relative to the inner ring...), but how do i do that in the program...
plus the rings could actually be the same object, the rotating axis might just give the perfect angles that i actually need... so the other solutions might even be more difficult to get the angle that i need...

or somehow just draw the same angles from 1 ring and then revolve the whole draft around the original 1 ring? (while the inner ring actually has to be only half of a ring to fit into the design properly...)

[AlexLachance]

Post images, hard to understand from the explanation.

[cadthemall]

so its basically like 2 rings and 1 axis, but the axis is only used to get the desired shape, it doesnt have to be rotatable after that...
https://www.upload.ee/image/17605815/2rings1axis.jpg

[Frederick_Law]

That's 2 rectangles.
We can't read your mind and don't want to

[Pernils]

Could it be as simple as this ?

[cadthemall]

if you can point at the sides that i drew on my picture, then i could probably check what you drew, but my model is not supposed to have any flat surfaces (except on 1 side at the top; and the left side Fill probably creates the non-flat surface then).

altho it might actually be fixed, if the original cut cylinder would be at an angle itself then? but that would be the other point - how do i even mark all of these angles and cutouts on the model in the program and how do i fill the top part of your drawing for example... and then cut a smaller hole into that(which is probably the easiest part of the whole thing tho)...

or... it should probably even have quite flat edge in the bottom and then turns into an angled cylinder that i could then cut a hole into? but that hole would need to follow the somewhat flat edge in the bottom then....

and this:

That's 2 rectangles.
We can't read your mind and don't want to

i thought i already was talking about 3d and solid edge, so maybe you could try and get on the same level a bit (it is 2(or 1,5) rings on 1 axis)

[SPerman]

i thought i already was talking about 3d and solid edge, so maybe you could try and get on the same level a bit (it is 2(or 1,5) rings on 1 axis)

Most of your questions have about 5% of the information we need to understand your problem. Being rude to those trying to help you is not going to get you the results you are looking for.

[cadthemall]

i was just stating the facts and its not supposed to be rude

but the bottom of the whole thing probably has to be something like this:
https://www.upload.ee/image/17609168/angle1.jpg

and because i'm not even sure how all of this stuff is supposed to be modeled in the app, i cant even draw the whole thing lol - the 1,5 rotated rings just seemed the easiest way to describe it...

[Pernils]

Hmm ... still hard to understand ...
I think you will have easier to express your self if you use a paper + pen and upload photo from your phone.
Try to draw end result in somewhat isometric view.

(Personally I find it cumbersome to draw in paint.)
(* edit added something that maybe mimic your goal edit *)

[DennisD]

Hmm ... still hard to understand ...
I think you will have easier to express yourself if you use a paper + pen and upload photo from your phone.
Try to draw end result in somewhat isometric view.

THIS!

[Frederick_Law]

i was trying to design a cover for a thing

Show us the "thing" you want to cover.

[Frederick_Law]

i thought i already was talking about 3d and solid edge, so maybe you could try and get on the same level a bit (it is 2(or 1,5) rings on 1 axis)

You just failed to communicate in words and pictures.
You talk 3D but you sketched 2D.
You talk rings and sketch 2 rectangles.
Are you drawing in 4th dimensions?

Rings and axis and no flat surface?
And your sketch is rectangles?
Gonna need lots of imagination to see what you want.

Give us what you're drinking or smoking.
That'll help.

Help us help you.

[Frederick_Law]

2 Rings and 1 axis.

[cadthemall]

Hmm ... still hard to understand ...
https://www.cadforum.net/download/file.php?id=12948&t=1

ok i try to draw it on paper, but your last image already has the 1 fixed axle removed, aka the 1,5 rings are not rotating on the same 1 axis, but have rather been pulled into separate "parallel" planes/faces with no common axis at all

[SPerman]

Another suggestion is to show us what you've gotten done so far. If you upload the part/assembly, or at least provide a screenshot it will be easier for us to see where you are struggling and make recommendations.

[Pernils]

As its "rings" (plural)... is this in fact an assembly ?

[DennisD]

With the state of AI these days I wouldn't be surprised if we are being punked by a bot.

. . . Except I would expect that even a bot could provide decent pictures of the objective.

[Pernils]

With the state of AI these days I wouldn't be surprised if we are being punked by a bot.

. . . Except I would expect that even a bot could provide decent pictures of the objective.

Lol ...

Anyway .. another guess.

[cadthemall]

yes, something like that, but how do you even model something like this and then also fill in all of those gaps and add more angles, etc?
i probably still cant draw the thing itself, but the proportions+angles and theory should look something like this:
https://www.upload.ee/image/17610146/cover1.jpg

it would actually add more features, if the bigger ring would stay rotating in several fixable steps, but i'm not really sure what would fill in all of those gaps then... but if i can get the angles kinda perfect, then it can all stay fixed and non-movable etc...

PS: @Frederick_Law is trying to convince everyone that these are not 2(1,5) rings rotating on the same 1 axis?
https://www.upload.ee/image/17610148/axis1.jpg

https://www.cadforum.net/download/file. ... &mode=view
2 Tubes and 0 axis.

[Pernils]

yes, something like that, but how do you even model something like this and then also fill in all of those gaps and add more angles, etc?
i probably still cant draw the thing itself, but the proportions+angles and theory should look something like this:
https://www.upload.ee/image/17610146/cover1.jpg

it would actually add more features, if the bigger ring would stay rotating in several fixable steps, but i'm not really sure what would fill in all of those gaps then... but if i can get the angles kinda perfect, then it can all stay fixed and non-movable etc...

PS: @Frederick_Law is trying to convince everyone that these are not 2(1,5) rings rotating on the same 1 axis?
https://www.upload.ee/image/17610148/axis1.jpg

Start with the main feature .. namely the bottom extrude.

Extrude it symmetric.

For next geometri use angular plane based on base plane.

Read the assist .. basically select one plane (will be your profile plane) and a intersection plane that it will rotate around.

Draw your profile in the coord system center and extrude symmetric.

Finally you cut away the unwanted part.


@Frederick_Law is sort of correct as an axis i cad is almost always thought to be at somethings normal. Think how the revolve command works.

[Pernils]

For total filled its only 2 features ..

With an extra thinwall command you can "open up" face/faces.

[cadthemall]

well, it looks kinda similar, but if you flip your 2nd picture vertically, then you can see that the fill angle is not that good, because it just covers the whole enclosed area really weirdly, so i'm not even sure what is going on in there or how to fix/remodel that lol (on my theory pic the left fill area goes further away from the edge of the 1st inner ring, but this model seems to be the exact opposite in the other direction)

[Frederick_Law]

We're domed!

[Frederick_Law]

Which one do you want?

[cadthemall]

Ai bot went into error mode again? it does seem to like to rotate half objects around the axis that it finally figured out tho, kinda like the fingers and left hands that it still haven't figured out yet lol

[Pernils]

well, it looks kinda similar, but if you flip your 2nd picture vertically, then you can see that the fill angle is not that good, because it just covers the whole enclosed area really weirdly, so i'm not even sure what is going on in there or how to fix/remodel that lol (on my theory pic the left fill area goes further away from the edge of the 1st inner ring, but this model seems to be the exact opposite in the other direction)

Bah .. I'm sort of lost here ..

With thinwall you can open what surface you want ...

In you paper drawing can you change it to section view (in the center)..

Sort of ..

So maybe I get at better grip on what you want to do.
Or you can edit my attached file (SE comunity version)

[cadthemall]

ok thanks i can try that, but maybe the whole fill issue is that the 1st inner ring has(should have) a smaller diameter than the outer rotating ring? so the filler area from the top of inner half ring has to(should) move outwards towards the bigger ring... altho i still dont have any clue how to model all of that stuff into 1 solid piece then...

[Pernils]

ok thanks i can try that, but maybe the whole fill issue is that the 1st inner ring has(should have) a smaller diameter than the outer rotating ring? so the filler area from the top of inner half ring has to(should) move outwards towards the bigger ring... altho i still dont have any clue how to model all of that stuff into 1 solid piece then...

Hmm still lost in the dark ...
As already mention I would be helpfull if you can make section view of your idea in z-x plane and also z-y plane (take picture bellow as reference for axis).

Have moved the feature around to get this kind of "filler area" around the outer "ring".

[cadthemall]

ok thanks i try to check those, but now the inner ring seems to be smaller, but the filler should be going smoothly from the inner ring to the outer/bottom ring without any flat surfaces on the top... altho i dont even have a clue if that would even be possible at all...

and the tilted/cut cylinder thing i mentioned earlier would 1st look something like this?
https://www.upload.ee/image/17610694/cut1.jpg
and then it should be carved into the whole 2 rotating rings thingie.... if it would even be possible to add the bottom ring to that tilted cylinder thingie...

[Pernils]

ok thanks i try to check those, but now the inner ring seems to be smaller, but the filler should be going smoothly from the inner ring to the outer/bottom ring without any flat surfaces on the top... altho i dont even have a clue if that would even be possible at all...

and the tilted/cut cylinder thing i mentioned earlier would 1st look something like this?
https://www.upload.ee/image/17610694/cut1.jpg
and then it should be carved into the whole 2 rotating rings thingie.... if it would even be possible to add the bottom ring to that tilted cylinder thingie...

The middle figure is a section view. This is what I meant when I asked that you should draw a section view of your idea.

[cadthemall]

the green is probably the section view then, the rest is just some thoughts about how this could be modeled from a rough block to get the actual shape and angles etc...
https://www.upload.ee/image/17610866/cut2.jpg

not sure about the bottom ring on the section view though, because it should be opened from the very bottom, but still goes around the whole thing in the bottom itself like a whole ring...
(PS. i probably cant open the community file)

[DennisD]

ok thanks i can try that, but maybe the whole fill issue is that the 1st inner ring has(should have) a smaller diameter than the outer rotating ring? so the filler area from the top of inner half ring has to(should) move outwards towards the bigger ring... altho i still dont have any clue how to model all of that stuff into 1 solid piece then...

You have posted many times and many people have tried to help you. You still have not provided a clear picture of what you want. Your sketches and written description have not done the job.

I will reiterate what has been suggested to you. Provide an isometric sketch or better yet, an image of something that is already shaped like what you want. You will get very good and clear help.

[Frederick_Law]

[Pernils]

the green is probably the section view then, the rest is just some thoughts about how this could be modeled from a rough block to get the actual shape and angles etc...
https://www.upload.ee/image/17610866/cut2.jpg

not sure about the bottom ring on the section view though, because it should be opened from the very bottom, but still goes around the whole thing in the bottom itself like a whole ring...
(PS. i probably cant open the community file)

With its section view ...

I assume that you have installed SE commuity verison of the software (after all you are hanging out in Solid Edge section of this cadforum) . So what version do you use ? (would be on the app icon and also on the splashscreen).

Another piece of the puzzle is an image on what object you want to make this cover for ....

[cadthemall]

that probably looks quite nice, but can you make a video about how to build this stuff in the program? it's probably just based on some basic functions, but it is not even possible to find any tutorial videos about this stuff, hence also the title of my previous topic...

[Pernils]

that probably looks quite nice, but can you make a video about how to build this stuff in the program? it's probably just based on some basic functions, but it is not even possible to find any tutorial videos about this stuff, hence also the title of my previous topic...

I'm running out of space on my gdrive so it will be pictures instead.

First an revolve with your profile ..

Axis of revolution around the center plane.

We end up with this (also marked the revolve button).

The we make a normal extrude but on an angeled plane ..

Pick top surface (A) on your profile and one intersected plane (B) (that you want to rotate the plane around).

Choose some angel.

Now we will be facing in its normal direction ..

For better grip of what is what we rotate the model a bit and include (with "Project to sketch" command) the top surface of your already done model.

Select face (C) and press Accept.

As we now want as your written many times 0,5 of a ring we must trim away half of it.

To get into the sketch views normal we press ctrl+h or click on the icon.

Now we draw a line it the center.

continue on next post

[Pernils]

Rotate a bit just to get a more clear picture on what side of the circle to trim.

The red line is sort of how you move to trim away the unwanted parts.

Your profile will then be ..

Just extrude it downwards a bit ..

To remove the unwanted junk just use the revolve command again on the same plane as your base feature.

Change to wireframe mode ..

Draw or use "project to sketch" to trace the original grove. Use the same axis of rotation.

Set right direction for cut..

We have then now ..

But missing som on the bottom side ..

This can be fixed with "Thin wall command" .. just use the open Faces option and press the bottom surface.

[Pernils]

If you don't want to have different wall thickness then you just start with a solid disc instead.
The workflow is the same.

Modelling is just to think what primitives I need to add or subtract to get what I want.

[cadthemall]

ok thanks i can try and see if i can mix all of this stuff into a model now, but already noticed 2 issues - 1st i probably solved myself by clicking the sketch view button, but the 2nd issue is that i dont even know how can i do the 1st Revolve step if the sketch does not touch the middle(X?) axis - aka if you want a hole on top of the 1st revolved model, it will not touch the center axis in the middle, so i dont even have a clue how to get all of those tool icons that are seen on the 1st picture to make it revolve around itself to create the model etc... - so the issue is basically the Revolve button not working by itself automatically or i dont even know how to set the Axis of revolution, because i dont know if it has to be in the "edit sketch" mode or when would the button even become active or start working etc...

and this is basically the whole issue with the whole thing - only really "small" details like this will get really confusing and it's not even possible to find any tutorials about it, while the rest of the stuff like drawing and extruding etc itself is kinda easy and self explanatory etc...

altho after adding the new hole, would it complicate any of the other steps then, which do not have to count the hole in the middle atm?

[DennisD]

ok thanks i can try and see if i can mix all of this stuff into a model now, but already noticed 2 issues - 1st i probably solved myself by clicking the sketch view button, but the 2nd issue is that i dont even know how can i do the 1st Revolve step if the sketch does not touch the middle(X?) axis - aka if you want a hole on top of the 1st revolved model, it will not touch the center axis in the middle, so i dont even have a clue how to get all of those tool icons that are seen on the 1st picture to make it revolve around itself to create the model etc...

and this is basically the whole issue with the whole thing - only really "small" details like this will get really confusing and it's not even possible to find any tutorials about it, while the rest of the stuff like drawing and extruding etc itself is kinda easy and self explanatory etc...

altho after adding the new hole, would it complicate any of the other steps then, which do not have to count the hole in the middle atm?

With all due respect, you need to do some basic skills training. Your comment about not knowing how to make a revolve with a hole in it reveals that.

Please, before you go any further, stop and go through the built-in tutorials. They will be a tremendous help to you and rapidly develop your skill.

[cadthemall]

why are you always repeating random stuff to me that i already know and even wrote myself? i also mentioned that it is not possible to find any relevant tutorials from anywhere, so if you want to stay on topic, then maybe link some videos that would solve the issue that i wrote in here? or if you like the built-in tutorials so much, then maybe point to the one that would solve the issue that i was not able to fix myself ?

PS: if you still haven't figured it out yet, then maybe stop and try to understand what "it is not possible to find any relatable tutorials" means. that would be a tremendous help to you and rapidly develops your skill.

[SPerman]

With the state of AI these days I wouldn't be surprised if we are being punked by a bot.

. . . Except I would expect that even a bot could provide decent pictures of the objective.

Maybe not a bot, but someone out-sourcing their homework. Or at the very least getting free design work from Pernils.

[DennisD]

https://docs.sw.siemens.com/en-US/doc/2 ... /xid486886

[cadthemall]

still no relevant or useful video given, so it just keeps being offtopic(why even circle a non-clickable text on the picture/app lol), but when i would even continue talking to automated bots, then the issue with the 1st picture is probably that he just used the revolve command 1st and then drew the sketch into that mode? i did it the other way around(or maybe just didnt use any smart dimension tools) and that's why i don't get the same buttons or functions at all and this is the whole point, even from my previous topic (that there aren't even any good videos explaining how to do some basic stuff that everyone actually wants use, with every possible issue that might occur etc...)

so maybe you can already tell from this text if i managed to fix it or not lol

[Pernils]

Some youtube (not checked on how good they are) about revolve ->







They are a bit old so UI is a bit different but the workflow is the same.

Hmm this channel seems to have ALOT of videos around SE.

https://www.youtube.com/@solidedgehelp/videos

Seems also to be in the new GUI (came 2022) ... Give it a shot ...


PS
I think it also exist a revolve movie in this thread.

viewtopic.php?t=2531
DS

[cadthemall]

i already fixed it, but the main issue probably is that if you dont press the Revolve button right before drawing the sketch, then you have to do some steps manually/in different order (which is not explained in any video at all, aka only creates lots of unnecessary confusion)

[cadthemall]

omg... now i probably also finally figured out why the filled in area looks so weird?

i think that the model described on the pictures actually rotates the 0,5 ring around and the 1 full ring stays in place, but i actually would need the full ring to rotate and the "0,5" ring also needs to have, lets say, a 40mm, hole in the middle... so would that be possible with the same techniques or something more needs to be added?

and just to get even better tutorial out of it - add that 40mm hole on top of the "0,5" ring, rotate the bigger ring around that "0,5" ring ( the one with a hole in the middle) and then also add a random hole pattern under the edge of the 1 full ring? and the "0,5" ring will probably stop being 0,5, because the whole area on top needs to be filled up and also needs to have a hole on that top with a huge angle coming out of it, so would it be possible to achieve this correct model with the same techniques at all?

and the "0,5" ring basically only needs to be a 1 full ring on the op then, while the bottom half needs to be cut off right where it meets the big rotating ring in the middle... (and both rings somehow be 130mm diameter?)

[Pernils]

omg... now i probably also finally figured out why the filled in area looks so weird?

i think that the model described on the pictures actually rotates the 0,5 ring around and the 1 full ring stays in place, but i actually would need the full ring to rotate and the "0,5" ring also needs to have, lets say, a 20mm, hole in the middle... so would that be possible with the same techniques or something more needs to be added?

and just to get even better tutorial out of it - add that 20mm hole on top of the "0,5" ring, rotate the bigger ring around that "0,5" ring ( the one with a hole in the middle) and then also add a random hole pattern under the edge of the 1 full ring? and the "0,5" ring will probably stop being 0,5, because the whole area on top needs to be filled up and also needs to have a hole on that top with a huge angle coming out of it, so would it be possible to achieve this correct model with the same techniques at all?

and the "0,5" ring basically only needs to be a 1 full ring on the op then, while the bottom half needs to be cut off right where it meets the big rotating ring in the middle...

Its just confusing ...

The model is according to your section view.

Draw a new section view .. or better an isometric view.

[cadthemall]

ok, but i mean that when you add more features, it seems to change the whole dynamics of the "2 rings" aka the model itself...
https://www.upload.ee/image/17626183/rings2.jpg

so it would need to be something like that, while the bottom hole pattern area even needs to have it's own special measurements and i'm not even sure if that would somehow match the measurements of the top or not, if the hole in the middle is ~40mm? (20x2). and how to even Revolve the thing in the top(with the hole in the middle) to match the rotating/Revolving bottom ring and make them fuse together?

or maybe even make a full groove in the big bottom ring if the hole pattern would be too easy? because the big bottom ring basically needs to have its own dimensions, which would also come from rotating/Revolving it, but the biggest question still is that how would all of this stuff even be mixed together at all?
(the bottom ring could be, lets say at 20degrees from the top's "0,5" ring...)

[Pernils]

hmm .. maybe your hole pattern should be sort of ...